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KeenLizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:15 am

chap5788 wrote:
I have to say, for all the mistakes Tyler has made along the way, he is playing a VERY good game.  I will admit some things have fallen into his lap and not necessarily by production manipulation, but just happenstance in some cases.

This week he was in a very bad position.  The flip flopping with the votes back and forth hung him out to dry a number of times this week.  Then all of the sudden Fessy and Haleigh go to Rachel and tell all Kaitlyn's secrets.  They had already decided to evict Kaitlyn, but this made it an easier sell and gave Tyler an excuse to go ahead with the eviction.  If she returned, he could have easily explained that Haleigh and Fessy were the ones to flip the vote last minute and he has her right back under his thumb if she wins HOH.

The Kaitlyn eviction sparked a conversation between Fessy and Tyler where they could compare notes and basically commiserate about things, even though Tyler saw Kaitlyn for what she was very quickly.  This led to a conversation about the girls weeding out the guys and they were going to have to watch each other's backs for a couple of weeks and try to make sure at least a couple of girls leave the house.

Then after the eviction, Tyler walked around like a lost soul of sorts apparently.  I am not sure how much was game and how much was that it was his deceased dad's birthday yesterday, but people noticed.  He apparently had some sort of tearful conversation with Bay before the HOH comp and she bought every bit of it.

Now Rockstar and Bay see him as a "wounded bird" that is good with a lot of people, but no real alliance now that Kaitlyn is gone.  He has everyone believing (except L6) that he was actually aligned Kaitlyn.  They have said things like he has a great heart and is a sweet guy and very trustworthy!  Now I believe that Bay is not considering him a target at all this week and wants to work with him moving forward.  

His only REAL problem at this point is Scottie.  Scottie is not buying any of this for a minute and the 2 of them are looking at each other from across the house knowing that they are either going to have to join back together at some point or take each other out and I think both are looking at the latter for sure.

I just think he is navigating the land mines in the game (several self imposed by his own mistakes) very well and I could see him winning this game unless he gets caught up by losing a crucial veto maybe in an DE week or something.

Okay Ctown, now it is your turn to point out all the production manipulation that YOU believe he has received and discredit the game he is playing on that basis!

waiting

Woot!  Woot!  Woot!
I agree with all of this, Chap! And disagree with ctown (what’s new)... because I think my definition of floater is completely different than yours.
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chap5788
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:25 am

Of course there is DR manipulation in every season and they do it to everyone in the house in order to cause paranoia and panic, that goes without saying. So basically they all have to deal with that. But you can't discount that Tyler has had to work for the good spot he enjoys in this game.

Now a classic floater, we apparently have different definitions of that term. In my mind, a floater does not have an allegiance to either side of the house. A floater does not try to manipulate things, they just suck up to the person in power and accept what they want to do. A floater does not try to win comps so that they have to make certain decisions unless it is solely to save their own ass. A floater usually votes with the HOH and only secures deals for themselves. A floater will tell any and all information to the person with the most power in the moment.

Tyler has an allegiance to L6. He has been the chief manipulator in the house this season. He has won or tried to win comps most of the time. He has put himself out on a limb for a few votes to help advance L6. Tyler only shares information when it is beneficial to himself and L6. Those things to me, mean he is not a floater.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:33 am

Just because someone can and does win comps does not eliminate them from being a floater. Look at the game he’s playing. He’s been in the ear of the HoH every single week. He is able to get info, without giving much up. Yes, his loyalty belongs to L5 (not L6, they renamed it when Winston left), but wherever the power is at any given moment, he is right there. That’s a classic floater game
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:55 am

Thanks Lizzy, Ctown can try but he will not be able to break up our alliance!

You are making my point for me Ctown! He is in the ear of the HOH each week..........I call that manipulation because it has gone his way all but Scottie's week and he mitigated the losses that week and kept who would be more beneficial (even though he should have had Sam use that power to save Winston in my opinion which was one of his mistakes).

And getting info without giving up much is smart game play, and the only people he gives that information to is L6 and other times keeps it to himself until others NEED to know.

On a side note, the group decided to keep the alliance name L6 because that was the original name and they don't want to discount Winston. Tyler did not know they had done that and has referred to them as L5 in the DR, but told the others that he would start using L6 from now on. it is like the brigade not changing their name when Matt was evicted. It is kind of a silly thing, but just a tidbit of information I thought I would share.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:49 pm

chap5788 wrote:


You are making my point for me Ctown!  He is in the ear of the HOH each week..........I call that manipulation because it has gone his way all but Scottie's week and he mitigated the losses that week and kept who would be more beneficial (even though he should have had Sam use that power to save Winston in my opinion which was one of his mistakes).  

That right there is a floater. So what if he wasn't able to manipulate Scottie, he was still in his ear and floated to the power that week. He was in no danger of going on the block. Manipulation is a different aspect, so is winning comps, so is social game. If you are able to successfully combine all of them, even better.

Ther eare some that misuse the term and refer to people like Rachel, Kaycee and Angela as floaters. They are not floaters, they don't run and get in the ear of HoH as soon as they come into power. This type of player is a coaster. Paul in his first season played a pretty good floater game. He will never admit it, but season 15 Andy played a floater game (Although it was a very sneaky floater game and he only one because of the worst F3 in BB history). The best floater game in big brother goes all the way back to season 4 which was Jun Song.

People who misuse the term, look at floating as a bad thing, but when applied correctly, it is a valid and effective strategy. I'm not insulting Tylers game when I say its a floater strategy, because he's playing it well
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:19 pm

chap5788 wrote:
Of course there is DR manipulation in every season and they do it to everyone in the house in order to cause paranoia and panic, that goes without saying.  So basically they all have to deal with that.  But you can't discount that Tyler has had to work for the good spot he enjoys in this game.

Now a classic floater, we apparently have different definitions of that term.  In my mind, a floater does not have an allegiance to either side of the house.  A floater does not try to manipulate things, they just suck up to the person in power and accept what they want to do.  A floater does not try to win comps so that they have to make certain decisions unless it is solely to save their own ass.  A floater usually votes with the HOH and only secures deals for themselves.  A floater will tell any and all information to the person with the most power in the moment.

Tyler has an allegiance to L6.  He has been the chief manipulator in the house this season.  He has won or tried to win comps most of the time.  He has put himself out on a limb for a few votes to help advance L6.  Tyler only shares information when it is beneficial to himself and L6.  Those things to me, mean he is not a floater.

I have to agree with Chap again. This is my definition of a floater.

And I don't think Tyler is doing any of this. Because he has an allegiance to Level 6, but he makes it look like he's floating from side to side. A true floater to me was Adam Pouch, Andy Herren and Portia. They brought nothing to the game, and they just floated from whichever side of the house had power. Usually floaters get far because they do nothing. So there are no targets on their backs.

I don't even know if there's a true floater in this season. But I think the lines were drawn in the sand pretty early and so people chose their sides and stuck to them. Well except for KarmaKait and Scottie and JC.

I feel if Steve had stayed in the house longer, he'd be the ultimate floater!
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:19 pm

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He keeps ending back up in his original alliance and tries to keep them safe but isn’t always able to. That’s how they lost Winston. He was on Scottie’s side that week.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:58 am

Tyler seriously needs to tell Level 6 that he has the power!!! Now that they know that Bay has the power he needs to confess to them that he has the last power so that they’ll stop being so paranoid about the power and focus on winning veto!
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:09 am

KeenLizzy wrote:
Tyler seriously needs to tell Level 6 that he has the power!!! Now that they know that Bay has the power he needs to confess to them that he has the last power so that they’ll stop being so paranoid about the power and focus on winning veto!

Absolutely. The longer he waits, the worse it is going to be. I think he was ready to tell them about it last week, but when it was clear that everyone was basically caring more about what JC and Sam thought about the eviction and dismissing his arguments, he backed off. You could see the more they debated, the quieter he got. I think he felt like they were hanging him out to dry. Now they are all regretting sending Kaitlyn out because she would be another target in front of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:32 pm

chap5788 wrote:
KeenLizzy wrote:
Tyler seriously needs to tell Level 6 that he has the power!!! Now that they know that Bay has the power he needs to confess to them that he has the last power so that they’ll stop being so paranoid about the power and focus on winning veto!

Absolutely.  The longer he waits, the worse it is going to be.  I think he was ready to tell them about it last week, but when it was clear that everyone was basically caring more about what JC and Sam thought about the eviction and dismissing his arguments, he backed off.  You could see the more they debated, the quieter he got.  I think he felt like they were hanging him out to dry.  Now they are all regretting sending Kaitlyn out because she would be another target in front of them.  

While there are many of them that regret getting rid of Kaitlyn, I think their assessment is wrong. If they had sent Rockstar home, Bayleigh side would’ve been blindsided yet again, I don’t think she would’ve thrown Kaitlyn right back up there, they would have to target the other side. Now if Kaitlyn would’ve completed that preschool puzzle, that’s a different story, then she may have went right back up, but it would still be a bad move. The target has to be on the other side
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:18 pm

ctown28 wrote:
chap5788 wrote:
KeenLizzy wrote:
Tyler seriously needs to tell Level 6 that he has the power!!! Now that they know that Bay has the power he needs to confess to them that he has the last power so that they’ll stop being so paranoid about the power and focus on winning veto!

Absolutely.  The longer he waits, the worse it is going to be.  I think he was ready to tell them about it last week, but when it was clear that everyone was basically caring more about what JC and Sam thought about the eviction and dismissing his arguments, he backed off.  You could see the more they debated, the quieter he got.  I think he felt like they were hanging him out to dry.  Now they are all regretting sending Kaitlyn out because she would be another target in front of them.  

While there are many of them that regret getting rid of Kaitlyn, I think their assessment is wrong. If they had sent Rockstar home, Bayleigh side would’ve been blindsided yet again, I don’t think she would’ve thrown Kaitlyn right back up there, they would have to target the other side. Now if Kaitlyn would’ve completed that preschool puzzle, that’s a different story, then she may have went right back up, but it would still be a bad move. The target has to be on the other side

You are forgetting that if they had went through with it, Bay was going to be included in the vote this time, not blindsided. And when picking a "pawn" to sit next to Brett, Kaitlyn would have be an easy decision for her. Then if Brett wins veto or otherwise gets off the block, Kaitlyn is going home. If not, she has a week to decide what the hell she wants to ask people to do.

And who is to say that Kaitlyn wouldn't have won this comp? From hearing people talk, it was along the lines of a crapshoot. No clear detail about it, but JC was talking to Fessy and someone else and said "why did they tell us to wear athletic clothes...............when are they going to have a competition that is physical or takes skill instead of stuff like that............and Fessy and the others agreed.

If nothing else, Kaitlyn would have been a fall back where as Rockstar is not that for Bay even though Bay really wants Rockstar gone to bring Haleigh more in line.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:32 pm

Comps is where Tyler’s game is lacking. He is now firmly established as a comp beast when he doesn’t need to be. This veto win did not need to happen. Taking 2nd in the endurance HoH did not need to happen. If this works out and he’s able to get Scottie up, it could make the season go from 60 to zero in no time at all. But why even try that, even if successful, he is picking one alliance member over another. The smart play would be to save Brett, he’s in most danger of leaving, but how would that go over with Rachel, she’s already freaking about being up
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:51 pm

I agree that he should not have came in 2nd in the endurance comp. The people left on the wall were not going to put him up. He could have controlled Kaitlyn if she had won, so that I agree was a dumb move.

The other veto he won to take Scottie off the block was necessary to get rid of Swaggy. He covered his alliance by taking Scottie off the block instead of taking Winston down. You have to believe that Swaggy going home was crucial to his game.

This veto, I believe he needed to win. I actually could see Bay getting fed up and putting him on the block as a backdoor because she is actually being "too nice" to him at this point. Why take the chance on having to use his power app for no reason. And remember you have Rockstar yacking in Bay's ear that if both Bret and Tyler are on the block, then we can choose whoever we want to chose and that type of thing.

Now if he uses it at all, I believe he will take Rachel off the block. I think it is an easy sell for Angela or Kaycee to tell Bay that Rachel will be a crazy person running all over this week and could make herself a target and Brett could stay. Angela and Bay had this conversation this morning that Rachel could easily make herself a threat by her paranoia.

I think Rachel has been holding Bay's power in her back pocket to decide when to use it. I think she will pull Tyler in a room and tell him about the app and Bay plans to put up Scottie and Tyler next week on the block together no matter who wins HOH. This will make him use it for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:15 pm

You know that, and I know that. He doesn’t appear to be I danger from his perspective. Now he has to make a hard decision. I get not wanting to have to use the app, but you have to play strategy, throw this veto, don’t piss anyone off and if you get a sense things go south (unlikely) you use it. This is why it’s such a difficult game, trying to figure this out.

Let me take this a step further, let’s say there are no apps, Tyler doesn’t have his, Bay doesn’t have hers. Then how is it played?
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:15 pm

ctown28 wrote:
You know that, and I know that. He doesn’t appear to be I danger from his perspective. Now he has to make a hard decision. I get not wanting to have to use the app, but you have to play strategy, throw this veto, don’t piss anyone off and if you get a sense things go south (unlikely) you use it. This is why it’s such a difficult game, trying to figure this out.

Let me take this a step further, let’s say there are no apps, Tyler doesn’t have his, Bay doesn’t have hers. Then how is it played?

Well it seems that Tyler has figured a way out of using it and not pissing off anyone in the house except Rachel when she leaves on Thursday which is the most likely outcome (but of course it is only Sunday).

If I was in Tyler's position, I absolutely would have went out there and won that veto. He really has no reason to trust Bay and he is fairly certain that she has an app as well, just doesn't voice it too much. Now he is safe with his app in his pocket for next week, although it might not help him if she uses hers to put him on the block depending on who wins the HOH next week.

Let's be real, everyone knows he is a comp beast already (the endurance comp sealed his fate on that one), so winning this veto really did NOTHING to change that. Now I originally thought he would use it since Scottie was more than likely going on the block, but I totally forgot that he knows about the all girls alliance. So I think going into this comp he had a plan in his head of how he could get out of using it, save Brett and Scottie and send Rachel home who has become a liability in the group.

And another thing, if Brett had won this veto and used it on himself, do you REALLY think that Scottie or JC would have been the replacement nominee? Rockstar, Haleigh and Fessy would have been up Bay's ass to send home Tyler because they would "finally have their chance." Sure he could have used his app, but why waste the app when this plan works in his favor and he comes out of the week on pretty solid footing once again. Well, other than Bay's power app for next week. If one from his team wins HOH, he will have no idea that Bay could take it over. But he has a very good chance of winning veto and taking himself down and then he STILL has the app in place for yet another week.

He is certainly making mistakes, but he seems to be cleaning up his messes along the way. And I might add that a "floater" would have thrown that veto so as not to make waves instead of taking control of the situation for themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:41 am

Tyler is making a huge mistake this week. He is basically shitting on Bayleigh because she’s going home. He should be talking to her and letting her know this whole thing is a game move and it’s because of her power app. This is where jury management comes into play. It’s obvious she’s going to be a bitter juror so he should be trying to smooth that over. It’s not just Tyler, but that whole side of the house
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:11 pm

I agree he is making a big mistake by going overboard with this whole hacker accusation thing and like you said so are others in the group. Kaycee was the only one who expressed any sadness for Bay going on the block and actually shed some tears in front of Bay. Not sure if that was real or not, but the fact remains she still did it.

Now if Hay goes through with this idiotic house meeting idea today, that door could be opened up once again where he can apologize for thinking she was the hacker, but then explain that he can't vote to keep her now because of her power app and can't go against Angela after she used the veto to save him this week. I think he will probably do something like that and probably planned on waiting until Thursday to do something like this anyway.

Frankly I don't think it is going to matter one way or another. She is going to vote for a girl first and foremost, that leaves him out if he is sitting next to a female at the end. Every male in the house has shit on her except for Fessy and unless something really drastic happens or he wins his way all the way to the end, I don't see him sitting in those final chairs.

Another thing I think he needs to take advantage of is that he told Rockstar right after the veto that his (and Scottie's) actions in the veto probably just saved all 3 of them. She didn't get it then, but when she goes to him for a vote, he can tell her that he never wanted her to go home and neither did Angela, so they handled things the way they did to ensure she would stay.

Of course this is another one who will vote based on gender, but she has not received much in the way of compassion or support from her own alliance and it will be clear that Fessy and Hay are trying to save Bay instead of her. Right after the nomination ceremony Tyler saw her in the SR and gave her a sincere hug and told her to keep her head up and not let anyone see her break down. Hay, Fessy and Bay told her not to mope around because it brings everyone down and things like that. This could be an important thing moving forward if he is on the block and needs a vote at some point. If he gets her to say she owes him one, I believe she will stick to it. It is absolutely worth a shot for sure.

I think he should also point out to Rockstar that he feels like her group has been crapping on her in the sense that one had a power app and didn't tell her, only shared with Fessy and then eventually Rachel. Another alliance member won the hacker comp and not only didn't she share the info with Rockstar, but she didn't take HER off the block instead of Scottie. Bay also knew she was going on the block and did NOTHING to stop it with her app, even before her app became public knowledge and before the hacker comps began. And then top it off with telling her that if he wins HOH, she is not going on the block and follow through with that..........put up Hay and Fessy telling Fessy he has to put him up so he doesn't save Hay since she is targeting him. Replacement nom might come into play at that point, but then you reassure her she has the votes to stay against Hay.

Like I said she will probably still go to the jury with plans to vote for a female, but sometimes the little things like this make a difference, just like Dan making the gesture of telling Jerry goodnight every single night.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:19 pm

While Tyler is playing one of, if not the best, game in teh house. There is one thing where he is crucially lacking. He has a F2 with every single person left except Fess and Haleigh. Eventully these people will feel betrayed by him. Especially Sam and JC who are on the outside of the L6 alliance. So if he wins HoH, he needs to put up Fess and Haleigh but then is in a very tough spot should he have to do a renom, JC or Sam will have a fit if they go up as a pawn and KC, Angela or Brett would not be happy to be put up by an alliance member, let alone someone who they have a supposed F2 with.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:19 pm

ctown28 wrote:
While Tyler is playing one of, if not the best, game in teh house.  There is one thing where he is crucially lacking.  He has a F2 with every single person left except Fess and Haleigh.  Eventully these people will feel betrayed by him.  Especially Sam and JC who are on the outside of the L6 alliance.  So if he wins HoH, he needs to put up Fess and Haleigh but then is in a very tough spot should he have to do a renom, JC or Sam will have a fit if they go up as a pawn and KC, Angela or Brett would not be happy to be put up by an alliance member, let alone someone who they have a supposed F2 with.

Watching him talk in the DR room tonight about all those deals, I had to laugh. Usually someone who is playing that many people is in jeopardy every single week, but truth be told, the people he made promises to in week 1 for the most part have been helped through the game by him. He has not really turned on anyone until there was no other way out of the situation or THEY jumped ship from him. Winston and Rachel were liabilities to the alliance, not just him, so that was a group decision on both counts. Scottie flipped and jump and flipped back and jumped so many times, there was no playing with him, but he did help save him the week of Angela's HOH. Sam is hardly what I would call a teammate in any sense of the word. She has pinky swears with just about everyone, but can't be counted on and I look for her to leave this week.

All in all, he has been pretty loyal to the people he has made promises to, but Ctown is right, things are going to unravel very soon depending on who goes next. I agree that he should go straight at Fessy and Hay, but judging from his conversation with Angela, I believe he is throwing this one and I don't like it. He needs to put on his big boy pants and make the move. He owes Fessy and Hay NOTHING because if given the chance, they WILL take it. The only reason they didn't take it this week is because of jealousy over Hay.
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PostSubject: Re: Tyler   Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:02 pm

I do believe Tyler is playing a great game, but there are some aspects of it I just don't understand at this point. He does shed some light on things in his DR sessions, but then some of his actions/conversations don't always line up with it.

For instance, I still truly believe that his first allegiance for a final 2 is KC. Of the entire group, KC is the one who has told Tyler virtually every piece of information she has had since they made their final 2. She has complete trust in him and he knows anything he tells her goes to nobody else if he asks her to keep it to herself. She was the ONLY one of the girls who told him about the girls alliance when it first happened. The others didn't admit it until it kind of became a joke of sorts. He also has shared more information with her than anyone else in the house (I wish he had told her about the cloud app, but I guess now he doesn't have to). He does spin a bit of the information coming from JC and his plans to break up this group or that group, but he still tells her more details than anyone else.

With JC he seems serious, but within the last week or two, JC has been getting on his nerves pushing his own agenda and wanting to strike at KC and Angela before Hay because it is best for JC's game, especially since you know he is going to be the HOH who actually puts those girls up, he will expect Tyler or Brett to do it for him and at this point, Hay won't put him up thinking he is the last "friend" she has in the house. But he also seems to be kind of throwing Brett into the same pile as JC with the girls like he is trying to get a target on him too.

In my opinion, Brett should probably be his number 1 pick to sit next to at on finale night if he has a chance, but I can also understand that this particularly deal didn't come up until Brett really didn't have any other final 2 options. But Brett is 100% loyal to L6. He actually wants them in the final 4 if they can possibly do it. The only reason Brett is entertaining JC's pitches about the girls is to make sure if JC takes a shot it will be the girls and not him or Tyler. This should be music to Tyler's ears at this point, but he just doesn't seem into it at all. If L6 goes to final 4, all 3 of the others will choose Tyler to take to the finale. Brett is smart enough to know that the jury is "pro female" and even though Tyler has won those comps, the girls have also won more than he has, so his best option is definitely Tyler.

And his last conversation with Sam was the week that Scottie left and she mentioned that she thought if she had gone on the block as a replacement, she thought she would be okay. She even said that there will be times when she has to be used as a pawn and understands that. What does he say to her? "No Sam, I will never even use you as a pawn for sure." That was the time to take this person who has very little understanding of the game and tell her that all of them will have to be used as pawns from time to time and it is a good way to show that they aren't working together and stuff like that. Now because of that comment should he win again, how the hell is he going to sell to her that he has to use her as a pawn and then will probably be evicted. Sure Hay might win and take a shot at her, but then if he wins veto she will expect him to take her down. If he doesn't win veto he doesn't 100% secure his safety.

It is one thing to have multiple final 2 deals and manage them as well as he has, but there is a time when he has to start making plans to get people cut and not go by the people he might like more than the others or whatever criteria he is using. I think he is worried about how much JC can talk and taint the jury and that is the reason he wants to try to keep him to at least the final 3 so he can't run his mouth. That is a good thought, but round 1 of the final 3 HOH is more than likely an endurance comp and often those are really made for people who are small like him. If he doesn't expose JC in some manner to the jury before finale night through GBM's or something, if he sits next to JC he will win. The jury already has their idea of who they are voting/rooting for by the time they take that stage and any information that JC was so manipulative throughout the game could easily make it look like Tyler was JC's lackey through the game just like Fessy was.

I sure hope some of his DR sessions or once in a while a comment to the camera while alone will shed some light on his thought process because some of what he is doing just doesn't make sense to me, and I think he is missing opportunities to shore up his end game.
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