Cameron veto

Apparently Blue actually picked Jared's chip, so she thinks she has some luck on her side. But, I don't think he will use it which is going to be hard to explain to Blue. He also really can't throw it because he thinks he is the renom. Now Jared is trying to get Blue, Jag and Matt to tell Cameron that Bowie wants to put him up so he will use her as a replacement nom. According to Jared, Cameron is "so arrogant" he thinks he has all these numbers but doesn't know how to read the house. I think Jared is going to eat those words because if he goes to Cameron and tries to blow that smoke up his ass about Bowie, all the small doubts that Cameron WAS having about Jared being sketchy will be proven.

Cameron said a couple of times last week if they could get rid of Blue they might "get Jared back" on their side again, but then after winning the HOH he has told a couple of people that he doesn't trust Jared much anymore, but trying to hold a little hope. Bowie has been with Red and Cameron more than anyone else for quite a while now. She humors the others and tries to be with the girls, but I think she tires of them and their antics.

Izzy is having a fit because Cameron has not said the words "you won't be a renom" to her like he has to Cirie, Felicia and America. Jared said if the noms stay the same he would think people would vote in HIS favor (keeping Blue instead of Jag). Making the case that way instead of saying Jag is a bigger threat or something like that, is what gets people thinking. They haven't even played the veto yet and he is talking about how the votes should go in HIS favor. Just about everyone he is aligned with does not trust Blue for shit and they know he will choose her over just about everyone because he isn't thinking with the head on top of his shoulders.

At this point, I would LOVE to see Izzy on the block. She will spiral on an hourly basis regardless of who she sits next to. And I REALLY hope it is Blue that she is sitting next to because the campaigning would be pretty crazy and I could see Izzy getting frustrated enough to say "he already has his mom here, do we need his girlfriend to help with his game too?"

I would love to see Izzy as the renom but I don't know if Cameron has the balls to do it. I'm not even gonna entertain a renom until I see who wins the veto.

I'm not sure either. He seems to think it will put him in a better position if he doesn't create waves this week, but I think he is mistaken. I don't know what gives him the impression that he can trust this new alliance. He has heard that there were several active thoughts to flip the vote the last 2 weeks which would have sent him packing and people weren't jumping up and down after he won the HOH. That SHOULD tell him what is going on. He could have easily made a few 1-week deals for safety next from people he wants to work with and broke up the group that is running the house. If you are already at the bottom, what do you have to lose?

If Jag or Blue win the veto, he needs to start putting out information/feelers about certain people throwing out certain names. For instance, telling Cory that Jared things he should go up is one to start with. There will be those who still try to push America even though he gave his word to her.

Truth be told, if he is really dead set on the person left on the block going home, he should put up Felicia. She used him as a pawn, so how can they argue with that?

For me, Izzy should have been an initial nom. That was a no brainer. It's not a secret to a single person in the house, Cameron included, that she was pissed he won the HoH. That alone should have been enough to at least put her up, if not make her the target

ctown28 wrote:

For me, Izzy should have been an initial nom.  That was a no brainer.  It's not a secret to a single person in the house, Cameron included, that she was pissed he won the HoH.  That alone should have been enough to at least put her up, if not make her the target

I agree with you. In his shoes, I would have put up Cirie and Izzy right out of the gate. I would have told them that it is no secret they were spearheading the talks for flipping the vote both weeks he was on the block. Tell them he has been told this new alliance they set up with him, Red and others was just in case he won HOH and is completely fake. Point out Izzy doesn't even try to hide her disdain for him and Cirie is her closest ally. Lastly, state that the name of the game is to break up strong groups and there is no stronger duo than Cirie and Izzy. This is all "public" information and doesn't break any trust with anyone.

I remember when Izzy and Cirie were pissed off that people were making them look like the leaders of flipping the vote for Reilly and they didn't like that look, but then they did NOTHING to pull back from doing the same thing last week. At this point if you are not at the top with a nod from Izzy and Cirie, you have 1 foot out the door. Don't waste your chance to shake things up.

And of course making those 1-week deals with various people who are likely to win HOH next week BEFORE the nomination ceremony would have been an important part of that. Lastly, don't make statements about which one should go before veto. In fact, I would wish them well in the veto and not tell ANYONE how they SHOULD vote. If I were him and asked that question in this scenario, I would say "if I were voting, I would vote out Izzy because it is obvious she doesn't want me here, but otherwise, people need to make their OWN decision about their vote."

Almost 5 hours now feeds have been down. Surprising they wouldn't do something quicker after right after a 14 hour HoH

This is where he fucked up his HoH. Nominating Jag and Blue was just stupid. Didn't even try to tell either they are the pawn and he want's to play a backdoor. If he keeps at least Jag safe and nominates anyone else from the other side, he can easily get votes from America, Cory, Jag, Red and Matt. That's the 5 he needs and he's the tiebreaker. But no, he pissed Jag off by putting him up so that vote is gone so now if Jag wins and he puts up Izzy/Cirie/Jared, he no longer has Jags vote to send it to a tiebreaker

Using pawns has always been a terrible strategy for me, especially this early in the game. Put up two targets. One of them are going home

Cameron won the POV, so now lets see how he can further fuck this HoH up

Apparently Jag lost by20 secs. That's gotta hurt

Correction. Red won veto, it was incorrectly reported because Izzy said something about it being Cameron

I kept watching the feeds to see who was wearing the necklace and finally saw Red with it, but you had already made the correction.

Not that it matters though because he will do whatever Cameron wants anyway. It does however help Cameron not to have won both, but it hurts him and Red as a duo going forward.

In any event, they (Red and Cameron) need to get SOMETHING out of this and it can't be just not making waves. Otherwise, you are just biding your time to be taken out next week. They need to get people to offer safety to both of them for next week at the very least. And of course people lie, but so many people in this house are TERRIBLE liars and if you keep going back to confirm, especially if things come out during campaign talks, you can pretty much see which way it is going.

Personally, I would just go through the motions with the Cirie/Izzy/Felicia group (and even Jared for that matter) and try to get that new group together (Cam, Red, America, Cory, Matt) and see if they are on board with taking out Izzy this week. If they are okay with it, talk to Jag and Blue about safety from the 2 of them next week and confirm they will vote out Izzy WITHOUT telling anyone in that group INCLUDING Jared. That gives you a good group of 5, plus 2 extra people who are not targeting you and blown up shit in the Cirie/Izzy/Felicia group.

ok, I want to preface this by saying the twist can fuck everything up, but they don't know about it so I'll just keep posting as if it didn't exist for what I think they should do.

They are currently planning on leaving noms the same. Huge mistake. They hold all the cards and could get that tiebreaker vote right back. You talk to both Blue and Jag and whoever agrees to vote whichever way you ask gets pulled down . Now Red is a fucking idiot and has stated several times that he will never put Cirie up so that's a no go. But theres still sketchy Jared and asshole Izzy that you could send home. Why are you not taking that shot?

America is really smart and the more I see of her the more intrigued I am about how she will be when she REALLY starts playing.

After the veto, she was in the room with Cirie and Felicia. Cirie was saying that Jag had said last night if the noms stayed the same he knew he had the votes. Felicia was saying how stunned he will be. America told them he was counting votes from people he doesn't have and pointed them out. Felicia then asked what others were going to tell Jag. America gave her pointers about saying he still needs to campaign and things like that.

Then a little while later she was with Jag and Blue and giving them pointers on things to say to Red and Cameron. One of them being straight up with them and saying they want to work with them, but were pulled into this other group. Then tell them that if they leave the noms the same and don't give them a chance, the one who stays in the house will NEVER be a number for either of them. Her reasoning is that people have already been saying they would scoop up the person who stays because they won't be tethered to each other anymore with 1 of them gone.

It's also funny that people are assuming that Cameron was targeting Jag, but he actually would like to see Blue be the one to leave. She ties up Jared a bit too much, she is more unpredictable and Jag can be reasoned with much better.

One last thing, if Cam opts to leave the noms the same and not make any waves for this week or anything, he should try to make a truce with Izzy but also send her out looking at other people to take the focus off of him. He can do that easily by saying he would like to start fresh with her, no hard feelings about anything that has been said or done up to now between the two of them. Then go a bit further and tell her he wanted to give her a heads up that someone she THINKS is close to her might not have her best interest at heart and to keep her eyes open. She will want details, but he can then say he gave his word and can't say who, but wanted to at least tell her to watch her back. This will make her paranoid as hell and she will start doing very, very stupid things.

ctown28 wrote:

ok, I want to preface this by saying the twist can fuck everything up, but they don't know about it so I'll just keep posting as if it didn't exist for what I think they should do.

They are currently planning on leaving noms the same.  Huge mistake.  They hold all the cards and could get that tiebreaker vote right back.  You talk to both Blue and Jag and whoever agrees to vote whichever way you ask gets pulled down .  Now Red is a fucking idiot and has stated several times that he will never put Cirie up so that's a no go.  But theres still sketchy Jared and asshole Izzy that you could send home.  Why are you not taking that shot?

Yes, Red also had a conversation with Cirie either last night or earlier today and told her that he advised Cameron not to make any waves this week and this would NOT be the week for any big moves. I get he wants some safety from Cirie, but that implies that Cameron was contemplating this shit and basically shits on his closest ally in the house.

Like I said, Cameron actually wanted Blue to go out instead of Jag, but he is basically fucking himself with his own HOH. All he got was 1 week off the block and a good bed for the week and nothing else.

I see zero chance of Izzy/Cameron working together. Even if he came to her before the veto ceremony and offered everything you just said, Izzy would run right to Cirie/Felica and spill it all. She has a hard on for him and I don't see anything changing that

ctown28 wrote:

I see zero chance of Izzy/Cameron working together.  Even if he came to her before the veto ceremony and offered everything you just said, Izzy would run right to Cirie/Felica and spill it all.  She has a hard on for him and I don't see anything changing that

Oh no, I didn't mean they would work together. Of course that won't happen. I mean he could set it up as wanting to start with a clean slate and just forget things that have happened previously and then tell her about the "heads up" thing about someone close not having her best interest at heart. If she runs to them and tells them that, it doesn't really matter because he didn't say any names. It is just to get in her head that SOMEONE has said SOMETHING to him about her. Maybe even imply that this person thought she should be put up or something. Just get her looking over her shoulder and start focusing on something else for a little bit. Paranoia ruins more games on BB than just about anything else, and Izzy already has a healthy dose of that.

OK. But you have to remember, you are giving this as a viewer. He doesn't see the paranoia that we do, the only ones that see it are those that are paranoid.

But I owuldn't even extend that olive branch to her, she's upset he won, she's had nothing but disdain for him since the season started. Yeah get her out, that barely makes a wave as far as he's concerned. And it would probably be a relief to Cirie/Jared

ctown28 wrote:

OK.  But you have to remember, you are giving this as a viewer.  He doesn't see the paranoia that we do, the only ones that see it are those that are paranoid.

But I owuldn't even extend that olive branch to her, she's upset he won, she's had nothing but disdain for him since the season started.  Yeah get her out, that barely makes a wave as far as he's concerned.  And it would probably be a relief to Cirie/Jared

Actually he has seen the paranoia and the flip-flopping. When Cory talked to him about the vote flip (Cory basically told him it happened over and over both weeks), Cam immediately said that Izzy had to be at the point of that. Cory said it was mostly Izzy, but Cirie is right there too. He has also already talked to Cory today asking about whether or not Izzy will target him next week and Cory told him she wouldn't.

Extending an olive branch is not actually real or anything, just to put her at ease and then tell her the other part. Hell, he could even just tell her that her name was suggested by a couple of people to go up as a renom, but he decided against it since they have their group that has come together. Make HER think that he is down for the group even if she is not. Then when she tries to find out who threw her name out, he has to say he can't betray the confidence, but wanted her to know that there are people who are targeting her and let her run wild with that one for a while. This also has another side to it because you will see who comes up to Cameron and asks who the person was that suggested Izzy as a renom? This will show who might be working together, especially if it ends up being Jared who he is sketched out by anyway.

Here's the thing. There's obviously no love lost between them. They both know it. She has been very vocal with her disdain about him and he knows it. So why is he not removing that from the game? Even if shes full of shit (she is) get that focus off yourself. Izzy is going to have tunnel vision to get rid of this guy after his HoH, he has a golden opportunity here and needs to take it

Yes, I agree that sending her packing would have been the best thing he could do, but I believe he is going to choose the "safe, don't make any waves" route and accept that Jab or Blue will be going home. IF he chooses that route, regardless of how stupid it may be, then he needs to at the VERY least get some safety promises from a few people and try to get Izzy thinking about SOMEONE else instead of fixating on him. By telling her people were throwing out her name, that COULD flip the switch for her to start looking at other people with the side eye.

No to add yet another bad idea to this shit show is the idea that Jared, Jag and Blue came up with that they need to have a meeting with their group (the 7 deadly sins to come up with a plan to get either Blue or Jag off the block. First of all getting 7 people together with the 2 people on the block is very, very risky, especially since the veto is directly under the control of the HOH. Secondly what the hell are these people going to say to Blue and Jag?

1. Sorry we don't want the veto used because one of us could go on the block next to you?
2. Sucks to be you, but we can't help?
3. Maybe there will be a battle back?

You get the idea. They can do NOTHING for them. And if this meeting happens and nothing comes out of it for these 2 (which it won't), that is when they have to go to Cameron and spill it ALL to him.

The 7 deadly sins group formed and they were told that the group that included Cameron and Red was set up to keep them comfortable, but was fake. Point to the meeting that just happened with all of them there. Point out that obviously Blue and Jag are the "fake, expendable members" from their group and Cameron and Red are the "fake expendable members" from their group. Basically it is still pushback from the Reilly week to split up their initial group. Now it is time to take out one of those people who are running the game and making all these alliances every week for the safety of about 4 people.

Take Jag off the block (then if it goes south, he sends Blue out which was what he preferred anyway). Put up Izzy. He only has to get 5 votes and he can break the tie to send her out of the house and I think he can get those votes because there are others tired of Izzy running around screwing things up and interrogating them.

So the Legends 25 group decided to meet in the HOH room before the 7 deadly sins group could get together for a meeting. But after the 8 of them are done deciding they will vote out Jag and can't believe he thinks he has the votes, they look at the monitor and see that Cory and Jag are sitting outside the HOH room. If this doesn't show Jag EXACTLY what is going on, nothing will. Him and Blue need to get to Cameron and spill the beans about the other alliances and the information they were given about the Legends group last week leading up to this. They can look at the "roster" of both the groups and see who has the insulation of everyone else and Izzy is right there at the top for picking off. What a STUPID meeting to have.

The veto meeting hasn't even taken place and they've already decided to flip the vote and send Blue home. It's only Sunday and I'm fully expecting it to flip at least 2,943 more times

ctown28 wrote:

The veto meeting hasn't even taken place and they've already decided to flip the vote and send Blue home.  It's only Sunday and I'm fully expecting it to flip at least 2,943 more times

I have to say I was thoroughly impressed with the way Jag handled this situation. I was on the feeds last night when he talked to Matt first and then to Izzy/Cirie/Matt about his thoughts on his team, his loyalty, where he thinks he has votes, and some strange things with leaking information that has to do with Cory, America and Jared.

Jag basically said he is not going to be like Hisam and promise things to people who are not on his team (7 deadly sins). He said when he makes a commitment he means it and he is not going to go to Cameron and/or Red and promise them something by giving up members of his team, that is not the way he works. This impressed Cirie and Izzy. Cirie kept saying that Red said he would talk with him but it would be to get information (she has been very worried about this). Jag told them he has to go through the motions of asking for them to use it and things like that, but it will be superficial at best.

He then told them that America had grilled him about being in an alliance with people and basically named their entire alliance. He said she might have missed 1 or 2, but it was really very accurate. He denied it to her and asked why she was asking and she told him Cory told her and that Cory had heard it from Jared. Cirie's face just FELL when she heard that and Izzy looked right at her.

Izzy asked Jag why he didn't go and talk with Jared about it and he said in all honesty he is worried that it would get back to Cory and/or America and he really thinks he NEEDS their votes but he wanted the others to know. He told them he would keep them updated.

When he left the room Cirie and Izzy both said they should keep him and Matt was there to bolster the situation. They both said they have seen how Jag will go all out for people on his team and they don't see Blue doing anything for them at all. Matt left the room and Cirie told Izzy she doesn't understand why Jared would say anything, but still seemed to blame the problem on Cory and America. She told Izzy she would talk to Jared "as his mother" and tell him no more information to Cory or America, but they would wait until Thursday to tell him about the vote.

Like I said, I have to go back and listen for myself, but I think she already told him about the vote, so things could get sticky very quick now. I think this is a vote that would have stuck for sure if Jared were not a factor. I look for him to come up with some kind of information that Jag is going to target Cirie/Izzy/Jared/Felicia in some way to try to get them to go the other way. I also expect Jared to push Cory and America to vote the other way too.

The more I think about it Ctown, the more I think you may not have been too far off with what you said early in the season that Cirie may end up having to cut her own son loose because he is too reckless and they need to get at least ONE of them to the final chairs!

I can almost guarantee that it's just a matter of time before Jared's sloppiness gets him evicted. But that's when production will step in with a twist like we see going on right now, or a battle back to get him back in the house