Invisible veto

So it sounds like they will be playing multiple comps and there will be 2 vetos in play.

This is more of production not thinking things through. First we have a secret HoH, who has to nominate two people. Then you are going to have 2 vetos comps, what happens if each of the noms wins a veto and this secret HoH has to put up 2 more people? That means the secret HoH will have to nominate 50% of the people in the house and severely narrowing down who could be holding it. So yeah, I want to see Felicia and Blue each win a veto

I thought they were playing 2 comps with 2 vetoes in play by the comments (and Julie also said "seeing double").

My bigger question about the veto is how the ceremony will be handled. Do both veto winners state their intention to use it or not and which nominee they will save if they do and THEN the HOH name their replacement? Or does one veto winner state their move and the HOH name the replacement and then the second does the same and the replacement is named? In other words if Blue and Felicia both win veto, each will take themselves off the block obviously. So if Blue takes herself off the block and Cirie is the replacement. Then Felicia takes herself off the block, can Blue be the replacement on that side?

Like you said depending who wins the number of people left to put on the block could be narrowed down so far that you would be REQUIRED to put certain people up whether you want to or not.

Maybe both vetoes will be COMPLETELY separate. The first veto is played and the ceremony is held, it is used or not and replacement is made or not. Then the second veto is played and the ceremony is held, it is used/not and replacement/not, but the person who won the veto in round 1 is NOT safe and neither is the person who was removed from the block as a new replacement or something like that?

You are right, they didn't think this through very well because this is a complete clusterfuck with the small numbers. This is one of those concepts that sounds good on paper, but the devil is in the details, like how many people are in the house, etc.

This is yet another reason to have told a few people Jag is the HOH because people are going to figure it out regardless. The only way it would have been kept secret is if Jag would have won one of the vetoes and America or Cory won the other one. Both would not be using it for fear their #1 person would go up in place of the nominee they save.

I also wonder what happens if the same person wins both vetoes? I assume they can use one and not the other, use both or use neither. Wow, wouldn't THAT be a bag of power people would be clamoring for. Blue and Felicia would be STUCK to the ass of that person until Monday for sure.

Yes, multiple comps meaning 2 comps. Julies "cryptic" line about seeing double basically translates to two vetos. Now what I think would be good is if instead of 2 different comps, it's the same comp and it's played twice

It would be complete bullshit if Blue used it first to save herself and then was the renom on the 2nd veto. It would defeat the purpose of two vetos.

Before the feeds went down, there was no word on who was playing or how the draw would work. If the same person wins both vetos, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to use both of them.

Tuesday's veto show is 1 hour 15 minutes so there's a little bit of extra time for them to drag out how the whole thing will work, and if they follow the pattern, it will end the show without revelaing what was used/not used

So Blue won one of the vetos. Jags brilliant plan is now fucked. Every single person knows he's HoH except for the initial noms, so now whoever the replacement is, knows it's him

Tell me again how not putting up Cory and America and telling 80% of the house you have HoH is a good move and the best thing he could have done?

Jag won the other veto.

He could have been just as fucked if he had put up Cory and America and the 2 of them had won or even if Cory had won one of them. Regardless of who he put on the block, everyone played in the veto and there were 2 of them up for grabs. Being on the block could have been added motivation for America and Cory to win and had that happened and then Blue was a replacement, it is obvious who the HOH is anyway. Hell the winners could have been Cory and Blue, then what? He has the entire house gunning for his ass. By not putting up Cory and America he may have bought himself and Matt at least a week if Cory/America win this week.

Right now he could easily put up Cirie and send home Felicia. Sure people will say it was a waste of a week, but this is someone who has shown she has the capacity for mental comps and there are always the crapshoots that could fall into her lap. She is unpredictable and isn't afraid to take a big shot even if it means she is the target the following week. She has a big mouth with information so you can't work with her. Anything can set her off from sharing a bowl of fruit to sitting on the couch for more than 10 minutes with someone. Cut the losses, send Felicia to the jury and keep Blue guessing about who was the HOH.

If it's true that Matt and Jag told Cirie (I still haven't seen evidence of that myself but I know you trust that source you posted the information from), then Jag needs to tell Cirie that he is going to have to put her up next to Felicia to make sure she goes. He can tell her he promised Bowie she wouldn't go up because she kept him and Matt safe last week and can't break that promise. Cory and America seem to suck at comps, but if they can keep Blue thinking it was Cory who put her up, then maybe if SHE wins then she will still go after Cory. If Cory wins he will focus on Blue.

Maybe Cirie can use some of that Survivor Legend mojo to get Blue to keep herself on the block to protect Cirie, telling her Felicia will be sent to jury! Isn't that what a "legend" would do in order to stay off the block?

Apparently one of the vetoes was very physical and Jag characterized it basically of how much pain you could endure before giving up and then the second veto was kind of a lucky, "anyone could win it" kind of thing. So it seems to me that they were working for Blue and Felicia to be able to win those vetoes to totally screw Jag's HOH and that is why the HOH this week gets to play in the next HOH comp. There was also apparently some sort of going in circles element to the physical one as well and Bowie can't handle spinning very well.

Not sure how this happened, but Felicia is in solitary confinement in the comic room. They have one of those portable toilet things for her in there and Cirie had to move out for the night. I hope BB gives them alcohol tonight so they can all party in peace with Grandma in bed unable to bother any of them about it.

So Jag has now told Blue that he is the HoH and he will be putting Cory and America up. So lets refresh, I've been saying he should have put them up from the get go and placed all the blame on Blue. Yes, the veto may or may not have played out differently but you can't play this game based on what ifs. So now the only one that Jag hasn't told is Felcia (Yes, I will stand by my source that he told Cirie, she has never reported false information before), it will eventually get back to Felicia, and that will piss her off for being he only one that wasn't told. When the dust settles, Blue will realize that she can no longer trust JAg and that if she hadn't pulled out that veto, he was planning on sending her home. Byputting up Cory and America as the replacements, whoever stays will be coming after him and most likely will align with Blue.

Wow, great gameplay there Jag, you now alienated 50% of the house by playing stupid, when you could have kept plausible deniability if you had kept your mouth shut about the HoH and went after Cory and America from the start

Matt and Jag just told Cirie last night. I watched the conversation where Matt told her and she was happy and relieved to learn for sure it was Jag. They were contemplating telling her on Thursday/Friday but didn't do it after all. I'm guessing that is what your source was basing the the comment on.

What I am saying is that either way he went with this situation, there was a chance he was going to get screwed over. If Cory and America were both on the block they would have worked A LOT harder at the veto. The comments were that they were pretty much just hanging out not worrying about anything. So if they turned it up, who knows what could have happened. Plus if Blue was NOT on the block she would have guessed it was Matt or Jag and then would she kill herself hanging onto something thinking she 100% wasn't in danger? You don't know how that would have turned out any more than Jag did when he made the decision.

Playing this the way he did, if Blue had not won one of the vetoes, all would have been fine. She would have still been guessing whether it was Cory or Jag and she would have been evicted. Cory and America would not be upset and since next week is not a double eviction just like they predicted, they would probably be throwing that HOH as well which opens the door even wider for Matt, Bowie or Jag to win it and take the shot next week.

And yes, you are correct, Blue and America will join together now, but that would have happened if they had done it your way as well. In my opinion it was worth the shot to take out someone who is a bigger threat at comps (Blue) and keep Cory and America playing nice because he only had to worry about 1 person winning the veto and screwing it up, and of course that is what happened.

You keep playing what ifs. Well guess what? IF my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle. You are ignoring the anonymous part by clinging on to "someone would have guessed it" These aren't the brightest people in the world and there is still that plausible deniability if you just stick to your guns and not tell anyone. So lets based on what we know as fact. Jag won HoH. Jag told everyone except Cire/Felicia/Blue and nominated Felicia and Blue. Blue won one of the vetos. Jag fessed up to her that he is HoH, put her up and targeted her, but now will put up Cory and America. There was zero good outcome of the way he played this. They key was to keep his mouth shut but he couldn't wait to tell people. So now he's got enemies all over the place. Even his little thing with wanting to use FBJ as a pawn was stupid just because of the fact that he told her about it. It's one thing to have that discussion privately with Matt, it's another to have it with her. So now she's gonna have that seed of doubt. These are all bells that cannot be unrung. He probably even cost himself jury votes should he make F2.

There are also what ifs in your original plan as well. If he had done as you are saying and only told Matt he was HOH and put up Cory and America. Where is the plausible deniability in that? You know damn well Cirie and Felicia didn't win the comics and Bowie didn't play. That leaves Matt, Jag or Blue as the possibilities for the HOH. A 5 minute conversation with Blue and America would know that Blue wasn't the HOH because those 2 spill just about everything to each other. So you then know it is Jag or Matt. They make all their decisions together so it really doesn't matter which one it is, they are both responsible for it.

There are still uncertainties when it came to the veto and those were details that Jag did not know before the veto was played. They all knew that everyone would be playing veto so trying to backdoor someone really doesn't make sense.

Bowie is solidly Jag and Matt, so I think they had to tell her for that reason. The conversation about putting her up as a pawn was just him spit-balling with Bowie just like they did with things last week where they differed on opinions of taking out Cam or not and those discussions ended up sending him out. This is no different.

And let's be real, there is NO WAY this HOH was going to remain secret with the stupid twist of having 2 vetoes and production knew it. So who he told and when he told is irrelevant.

And you say I am bringing up what ifs to bolster my argument, the same could be said about your plan. It just happened that the veto turned out that taking the shot at Cory/America worked out. It could just as easily been fucked up as well with a tweak here or there. He took the chance on only pissing off 1 person (Blue) by taking the shot and evicting her instead of a sure shot of pissing off 2 people and it backfired. I still think it was the shot to take considering the threat level of all involved.

The plausible deniability lies with blue, like I've been saying all along. Just because she denies being HoH doesn't make it any less plausible. It's no secret that Blue wants Cory and America up and out and that is the main ingredient and what makes it plausible.

ctown28 wrote:

The plausible deniability lies with blue, like I've been saying all along.  Just because she denies being HoH doesn't make it any less plausible.  It's no secret that Blue wants Cory and America up and out  and that is the main ingredient and what makes it plausible.

And once again I will say that a 5-minute conversation with America would tell her Blue is NOT the HOH plain and simple.  Blue is not that good of a liar and America knows it.  I will also say once again that there was no way this secret was going to be kept regardless of who the winner was and who the noms were.  Well, with the exception of Felicia or Cirie somehow pulling BB comics out of their ass and keeping the mouth shut.  Otherwise, it was easy to figure it out anyway.

a 5 minute, 10 minute, 4 hour conversation with anyone does NOT prove a damn thing.  Just because she says it's not her does not mean a damn thing.  Not to mention we've seen how gullible these idiots have been all season long .

But it's still a moo point, it will be a moo point tomorrow and will be a moo point next week.  We'll never know because we didn't get to see it play out that way.

And yes, I said moo point!

It may not make it TRUE, but it doesn't matter if the people involved believe it and act accordingly. I get it we will never know how the vetoes would have turned out if different routes had been taken, but I still stand by the fact that NOBODY would have been a secret HOH this week unless Felicia or Cirie pulled one out of their ass and ALSO kept their mouth shut. The 2-veto thing fucked that up and production knew it.

Well Cory and America are not taking being the replacments very well:



Poor babies! Feeds were down almost 2 hours for the veto ceremony so either it took longer because of invisible HoH are they didn't come back right away so feedsters couldn't see the fallout.

Here's the video of it



More shit will be brewing. I think we need a good old fashioned, all out catfight between America and Blue

I really thought America would have her "call out/argument" moment for TV purposes, and maybe that happened during that time the feeds were down following the ceremony. But since then other than telling Jag to fuck off here and there, she has been hiding under the covers, crying and telling Cory she is sorry and wants him to stay. I get it was only a few hours ago, but come on, enough is enough. She always talked about people being "badass" and "taking big shots" or at least "unexpected shots" being so cool, but THIS is the way she reacts?

Cory has already started to talk to people walking the line between wanting to support her, not look sleezy but yet campaign to stay, and not against America but FOR himself. He seemed to get through to Cirie a bit (probably the part where he said she would be his #1 and going after Matt/Jag), but she brought it up to Matt and he shot it down. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but then she agreed with the arguments against it.

He talked to Blue as well and wanted to know the things that America supposedly said to Blue that she should be sorry for, etc., but nothing Blue said was really that incriminating or anything. Cory then extended the olive branch and made the same pitch that him going after Matt/Jag and them going after him gives everyone in the 1 or 2 free weeks and promised her safety. She was cautious but said she wants America to do the work to get her vote, etc. In other words Blue wants be able to hold it over America's head for her own entertainment, but she did seem to be thinking about keeping Cory.

Cory told Blue that "the 5" that she has heard Cory talk about was Matt, Jag, Cory, America and Bowie, not Blue with them. He said Bowie is definitely with them. But he told Cirie that he had a final 3 of Cory, America and Bowie (what Meme said while leaving), so you know there are going to be notes compared, so he kind of screwed himself up a bit there.

I am just really disappointed in America's reaction. Jag has asked for a group discussion to clear the air so it is not so awkward for anyone the rest of the week. Cory wanted to go ahead with the talk without America, but Jag said he wanted everyone there otherwise there is too much telephone.

Cirie and Felicia have offered America comfort and support and tried to get her up, but all she wanted to know from them is if they knew beforehand and WHEN they were told and both said they found out the plan last night.

Oh, and let's not forget about America's big talk in the DR that she would have 100% went after Jag this week without any other thoughts, so I don't understand why the hell she is having this reaction, especially considering she is more than likely the one who will stay. And she also doesn't know if there could be yet another twist and someone comes back or a superpower that saves someone else or whatever. Not likely, but you have to be ready for anything. Reacting like this makes it less likely that you will ever be asked to return and that is something she wanted to do. Really disappointed for sure.

America is trying to be like Rachel Reilly. Take a look at this DR session from the other night (yes, I know it's scripted)



How many times did we have to hear Rachel bring up "her man" in DR's. Now she is on the block and in danger so she takes it personally and flies off the rails

It's funny how Rachel is considered a legend yet was so horrible at the game. She only won due to production manipulation with that stupid Pandoras box thing. She thinks she's a strong player because she can win comps but has zero social game.

I really had high hopes for America because she seemed fearless about taking shots, I thought she would be good at comps to take those shots and she knows the game well. But she sucks at comps, she can't keep her mouth shut and is her own (and Cory's a lot of the time) worst enemy. It really is too bad because she has a knack for getting people to talk to her and be comfortable, but she screws it up EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I knew early on she was checking boxes for her game experience, but I didn't really think she would make those things more important than the game itself. It will be interesting to see how she functions when Cory leaves (if he leaves that is).

Wow, I didn't see this one coming! America is actually campaigning to Jag and I only listened to a couple of minutes, but it sounds like she is wanting to join with them. Of course Jag is basically looking at her like she is crazy, but also making jokes about it as well. Maybe Blue's obsession with America is a mutual thing because America referenced being betrayed by others not just Matt and Jag (which has to be Blue). Of course he would be a fucking moron to believe her, but the fact that she is actually having the conversation, apologizing for acting like a 5-year-old and trying to mount a bit of a campaign to Jag of all people restores a bit of her integrity that I thought she had. That being said, I think she would react the same way if she gets put up again, but maybe she will play differently once Cory is gone. My guess is she will strike the INSTANT she has a chance which is understandable, but I'm glad to see her trying anyway.

I'd love to see Cory being evicted light a fire under her ass and watch her put together a string of comp wins and get herself all the way to final 2. How funny would it be if there's a final 3 of America, Bowie and either Felicia or Cirie?

I jsut read some of the updates. IT appears that America calmed down finally and when she finally went to talk to Jag, Jag threw Blue right under the bus and said it was a blindside becasue he felt betrayed by what he had heard from Blue. WTF is going on this season? It would be so easy to win this game. You want to know how to get Jag and Matt to turn against each other? If Matt puts me on the block and I win veto, I just tell him that I'm taking myself down and that Jag told me that his final 2 with Matt isn't real and he will be putting him up. The pattern this season is just to take people at thier word and not follow up on it.