Jag veto

Everyone playing in veto except Cirie. The only veto she has played in was when she was on the block and/or the week everyone played. After the draw, they dumped the bag to make sure Cirie's chip was in there. IF that will be shown on the episode is anyone's guess. I'm thinking they'll show it so they can say "See? we don't rig anything"

Thye are speculating that the veto will be fold/stay and came up with a strategy and for some reason Jag got America to agree to throw it to Matt so they can send Blue home. Fuck that, if I'm on the block, I'm not throwing it to anyone

I haven't heard their conversations today, but I have heard them discuss the stay/fold thing before and I don't think anyone left in the house (except maybe America), Jag and Matt in particular actually understand a strategy for making sure certain people don't win. They seem to know they need certain people to fold each time to stay in, but they don't realize the person who stays in is the one who can guess the amounts of things better than others. I think this ends up being a clusterfuck and who the hell knows who will win.

And IF America actually agreed to throw it to Matt, I am guessing she is 100% lying. And it's not like they can call her out about winning should that happen because they don't want her going after her next week. Plus she can always say she panicked and didn't want to look stupid throwing the veto and then going to jury.

From what I'm reading, Jags master plan is making both America and Blue feel the other is the target to make them feel better about throwing to Matt. This is just plain stupid. I don't think Jag understands jury management because whoever ends up going home is gonna realize he was full of shit and hold it against him

ctown28 wrote:

From what I'm reading, Jags master plan is making both America and Blue feel the other is the target to make them feel better about throwing to Matt.  This is just plain stupid.  I don't think Jag understands jury management because whoever ends up going home is gonna realize he was full of shit and hold it against him

Yes, he has told them both the other one is the target, but I don't think it is to make them throw the veto to Matt. I actually think Blue suggested to Matt that she could throw it to him so he could take her down and they would both be safe and then Bowie could be put on the block and they could decide who to take out. But here again, I don't see Blue throwing a veto while on the block either.

He told America that Blue is his target because he knows him and Matt are her targets now that Cory is gone, but he said if that information is shared, he will just send America home to prove it isn't true. Funny thing is that Cirie told America that she thinks Blue is the target and that Bowie will never be put up as a replacement, and she was supposed to keep that secret too. Seems Cirie's is getting loose lips more and more from spending time with Felicia (who was in the room at the same time). What America should have done is gone to Jag and told him that Cirie just said that to her and she wants to make sure that he knows the mommas are talking about that shit and it isn't coming from her.

Jag can easily take care of Blue's jury vote by telling her she is a much better competitor than anyone else left in the house and she doesn't have the votes, not even 2 with a tiebreaker, but that won't happen until about Wednesday night or Thursday morning.

I just went back and watched the conversations about the stay/fold competition. The irony here is that Jag asked Blue what strategy they should use and her answer was that SHE would fold every round to the end, apparently not realizing that someone could win those 3 points they need before it got to be her turn to stay in with their guess at the number. She then asked Jag to tell the others. While he was telling the mommas, Blue entered the room and confirmed that they would follow this strategy:

Jag would stay every round. Once he is eliminated from the game, Bowie would be the second one required to stay to try to win. If she is eliminated it would be Felicia and then finally Blue. After talking to Matt, he and Jag decided to have Matt be the first one to stay in case he messes up (moving Jag to third in line), Jag would know how to recover for the "team" or whatever. So Blue came up with a strategy that would almost guarantee she will lose this veto and nobody noticed it.

Now when Jag talked to America, she needed to be refreshed on the game and what they were going to do. He told her she needs to keep folding, but she immediately said that would mean she CAN'T win and she didn't want to do that. Jag told her he is not that big of a villain that he would tell her that if it wasn't true and they laughed about it. But in talking about it more, they both realized it would look really bad if she just always folded, so he suggested that once one of their people have 2 points, she should try doing a good guess and staying just to break it up a little bit and throw things off.
So she didn't really AGREE to throw it and was shocked that Blue was okay with her folding over and over, thinking she is not that stupid.

Now Jag understands this game more than I thought he did, BUT he has one of the very important details wrong and America started to say something, but then back off. It is HIS understanding that if several people were to stay the one who is closest gets the point and ALL others who stayed are eliminated, when actually only the person furthest from the correct number is eliminated.

I don't think this will be the comp anyway. I think it will be someone more physical because that plays to both the HOH (Jag) and his target's (Blue) abilities and they want to see that head to head thing once again between them.

I'd like to see that dice one come back where they have to determine the least moves to get a certain number on the top of the dice. I don't think ANY of them really have a strategy for that one. Another one that would show some cards and end up being a clusterfuck kind of thing would be the one on the checkerboard where they have to box out people.

Jag just won ANOTHER veto.

Don't know what the veto was, but it was individually timed because Blue said she could have shaved off "so much time."

Matt looked really pissed off at himself (or maybe even Jag). Bowie said she didn't think she could have cut any more time off of hers.

Jag is just making his target bigger and bigger. That being said, I understand why he couldn't take the chance on Blue winning thing one because they have all guessed the double is next week and she is much more of a threat than America. Obviously he isn't going to use it and it should be Blue leaving. But, this could very easily end up being a split vote to make Jag do the dirty part of sending her out. The only thing that makes it unanimous is if Jag actually admits he will send Blue out anyway and Cirie/Felicia are afraid they will go on the block in the double for being on the wrong side of the vote.

America did some camera talking earlier about spending more time by herself, but not seem standoffish. She doesn't want to be seen too much with any certain person or groups so it looks like she is forming something.

Cirie is really screwing herself out of a good spot in the game. I get that Jag HAS to go because he wins everything, but just planting seeds willy-nilly with people and throwing shit out there that can be easily traced back to you is just plain stupid, especially for someone who supposedly understands backstabbing gameplay.

I have posted that her and Felicia talk all the time and Cirie has been trying to drive Felicia in certain directions hoping that she will blow shit up and get blamed for it while Cirie stands there being quiet. Well it looks like Cirie doesn't think it is happening fast enough because she is starting to throw shit out there to others and is getting more sloppy by the minute.

I don't remember if it was before or after noms, but Cirie told Blue (in front of Felicia) that Blue HAS to win the veto or she would be going to jury because she IS Jag's target. Now remember that Jag told Cirie the only people who knew that Blue was the target was her and Matt for the time being. She said she would just keep up the America is the target narrative with everyone. And she didn't just say it to her once, she has reiterated it a couple of times. Even this morning she told Blue that she shouldn't leave America alone with Jag for any period of time to work on him and stuff.

So, just before the veto (and apparently off the feeds) Felicia caught Jag in the HOH room and told him that Cirie told Blue this and that she was trying to calm Cirie down telling her that America is the target and she isn't sure why Cirie would be saying "such a thing" especially to Blue right before the veto because now Blue would play hard and they want noms to stay the same. So, Jag went into that veto thinking Blue was going to be gunning for it hard core.

He told Matt about this after the veto and said they obviously can't trust Cirie like they thought they could and they need to quit sharing so much information with her. They are also going to tell Bowie the same thing (who by the way also knows about Blue being the target). While Jag was telling Matt about this, Cirie was in the comic room telling Cirie that Jag has deals with EVERYONE in the house and they need to do something about it.

Obviously can't do anything about it when he is HOH, but she was basically spilling just about EVERYTHING she could to Felicia. I'm sure she just thinks this will fire her up to go after Jag in the double eviction, which would have been the process more than likely, but she knows Felicia can't keep ANYTHING to herself.

I am just waiting for her to try to talk to Matt about the vote to be sure what is going on or something and he will try to avoid talking to her and avoid eye contact, etc., and she will know something is up. I could even see him telling her that he is a bit upset that she told Blue the plan which of course she will try to deny, but I don't know how exactly she could do that. I suppose Felicia COULD be lying, but considering that Felicia thought Cirie was crazy with her thought process tells you she didn't just make that shit up.

It really surprises me that Cirie would take this chance, especially in front of Felicia and now Jag holds all the power for replacement so he could flip this right on her fucking head if he wanted to.

If I were Jag right now, I would share it with Bowie and have both Bowie and Matt tell America they have her vote, but they all want her to campaign so nobody is the wiser. Take tonight and Sunday to just relax and have a good time and include EVERYONE who wants to participate (which is what Jag would do regardless).

Oh, and Cirie said her and Felicia need to talk to Bowie and tell her they have a final 4 with Matt/Jag because they know that he has a final 4 with Bowie too. Then she stumbled a bit and said the 4th was probably Blue or maybe it was just a 3. Of course she KNOWS that there is a deal with Bowie because it is a 4 with Matt, Jag, Bowie and Cirie. Bowie already knows that Felicia thinks she is part of something with all of them, so this is just a stupid and sloppy thing as well.

He needs to throw a bit of fear under the mommas and tell them Sunday night or Monday morning that he is thinking about using the veto because some of the votes sound a bit hinky and he has heard some things that are making him second guess his decisions.

Oh joy! Another Jag comp win. That's another thing bad about this season, they get out the strongest comp threat and then it gets down to this shit where the same person keeps winning.

Now Matt and Jag are contemplating if they should fess up to Delicia that Blue in fact IS the target as her and Blue are the only ones who don't know. This is where it would be stupid to lead anyone on. LEt everyone know who the target is and give yourself the time the rest of the week to campaign for that jury vote and try to quantify to her why she needs to go. Being a big threat in the double being the main reason.

The name of the game is to take out those who are a threat to you and your game and they have definitely done that this season. But like you said, it sucks for us. That being said, if they can actually pull off getting Matt, Jag and Bowie to the final 3 (which is what I would like to see) it will be the most competitive final 3 in a very long time. On today's veto, they took the top 3 spots and at that point there is nowhere or no reason to hide. I would also be okay with America sneaking in there (by winning if she can get out of her own head at some point). I just don't want to see Cirie or Felicia at the end at all.

Sure Jag has won the majority of the comps, but that puts targets on Matt as well so IF someone else wins, he could easily be the one evicted for that reason, so he is carrying that burden just as if he was winning himself. And Bowie was basically off the map and trying to find footing, ANY footing early in the game being under the thumb of the bye-bye bitches and Izzy. She has grown on me for some reason.

Now Felicia has at least put forth every effort she has in every single comp she has played and I give her A LOT of credit for that. She is also not afraid to take a shot, so if I had to choose one of them to be at the end, it would be her, but definitely not Cirie. She had a ready made alliance of 4 made just entering the house and a fifth person in Felicia because it didn't take a rocket scientist to know that Felicia would be drawn to Cirie even though they had their ups and downs.

Oh and now all the sudden Cirie is telling Felicia that they need to just smile and not say anything all of the sudden, probably because Felicia is pushing for a meeting between her, Cirie, Matt and Jag. Cirie has to know that some of the things they have discussed between the 2 of them will be blurted out of Felicia's mouth with her in the room and nowhere to hide.

I hope they have that meeting and I would LOVE for Jag to ask them about threat level and the 2 mommas think should leave the game and wait for their answer. He needs to find a way also to comment about maybe Blue hearing she was the target the whole week and that makes him nervous because she is a better competitor than America. Get that information out in the meeting and then it looks like he changed his mind (to Felicia at least) and Cirie can't say anything different because she isn't supposed to know anything that Felicia doesn't know from their group. This kind of puts a muzzle on Cirie.

Or even better tell them he is thinking he may have to use the veto and take America down because Blue NEEDS to go this week now that she has been told this information and it is the only way to make sure it happens. And the only way that happens FORE SURE is if Felicia or Cirie go on the block as a pawn which is something he didn't want to do, but might have to and watch them tie themselves in knots about it.

I've seen some rumblings of Felicia lightining fires all over the house and really throwing Cirie under the bus. That is making Jag contemplate if he should use the veto on America and backdoor Cirie (Cirie is the only one that the term backdoor applies to this week). This would be a huge mistake. IF he were to use the veto on America, what would he tell to Blue? If he were to use it on Blue, wht would he tell America? One of them would be pissed and be going for him with Cirie going. The bed has been made and the table is set to send Blue home. While the waffling was fun at the start of the season, it's way to late in the game for that shit to happen. Cirie can't win shit and can be dealt with later.

Of course, each and every person left in the house knows this week will be a double eviction. Jag can't play and the HoH will be questions so I think it's completely wide open as to who will win it. If it's not MAtt that wins, they would be foolish to not put Matt and Jag next to each other, one of them would have to go. If they don't, we may as well just announce them as the final 2 now.

I listened to his conversations with Felicia and then with Matt and Bowie and each time he said they can't do anything about the Cirie situation this week, Blue has to go, but they are going to back off on the information they give to her in the group; only tell her enough to feel included but she has moved up the target list as a result because she basically just sold them out.

It was one thing to warn Blue about being the target because ultimately Blue hasn't said anything and they are supposed to have a final 2 that Jared set up after all. But taking it a step further and keep asking Felicia why they won't put Bowie on the block, then saying if there is a replacement it won't be Bowie either and that means one of them, then after the veto she told Felicia to watch because at some point during the week they would be coming to them telling them the target flipped knowing full well this is what they were going to do. And the final one was to say that their final 4 was fake and Matt, Jag and Bowie have a final 3. This was really stupid to do, especially before the veto ceremony was over.

The irony here is that Felicia doesn't even know she is actually blowing up Cirie's game, she just thinks she is talking to Jag about a problem with Cirie panicking hoping Jag will speak with her and make her feel better. But during that conversation Felicia did blurt a bit of information too by saying that everyone in the house is going to be coming for Jag. That is obvious for the comp wins, but when he asked if anyone had specifically been talking about it and she said well of course not Matt but everyone else, then said that she had never heard Bowie say anything about it. I don't know if she realizes that means her and Cirie have been talking about it as well or not, but it is something to think about.

Jag is going to expand this new relationship with Felicia because they ended their talk with him telling her this was information she didn't HAVE to share and he really appreciates the trust she is showing and blah, blah, blah. She said he was her "mustard seed" and he said she was his too now! So he is going to talk to her today and tell her he has been thinking about their conversation since last night and if everyone is really coming after him like that he might have to think about threat levels to himself for the good of their group. But instead of suggesting Blue needs to go, he is going to put it on Felicia as to who SHE sees as the bigger threat to them and let her come to that conclusion organically. He plans to act like he is open to ANY of her ideas. Also thinking of telling Felicia that Blue is starting to talk to him and Matt like they should be a 3 because they can't beat the mommas or something like that.

While that is happening Bowie and Matt separately are going to try to spend some time with Cirie today and make her feel comfortable with them and Matt said he will even have a conversation with her to see if she feels okay with the way things are going and such to see if she says anything to him. He is particularly pissed about this because he has always included Cirie and now she is doing this shit to sell them out.

Now of course she knows none of them win against Jag (Ctown isn't on the jury to throw a wrench into that), and she has to do something, but this is just plain sloppy playing. Plus I think she sees that Blue is starting to pull back and telling her and Felicia what she thinks they want to hear. This could be an interesting couple of days watching Cirie dig her hole deeper.

Cirie's original plan of firing up Felicia so she would shoot her mouth off too much and be a bigger target, AND get others to target Matt and Jag kind of backfired on her, she is just not aware to what extent. She doesn't know that Felicia has been going to Jag with information and managed to get Jag to stop trusting Cirie like he did before and moved Felicia up the list of people to keep longer and Cirie up on the target list. Jag even discussed with Felicia who to take out this week and made it sound organic that it probably is better to take out Blue instead and she was 100% on board. Instead of making the decision final, he said they would see how things play out after the ceremony and such and keep each other updated.

After that, Cirie has been talking to Felicia about Jag needing to be taken out in the double and how they could make that happen. Cirie said best thing would be if her or Felicia win and put them up, but Felicia actually put the brakes on that for the first time. She told her they can't be the ones to do that if they win the HOH in the double eviction because the one who stays will win the next HOH and they are BOTH on the block and their final 4 deal goes away. She said they have to have others take that shot.

So, Cirie started talking to America and asking her if Cory gave her a plan to follow and she said he did have a plan, but she wants to use her own. Cirie tried to get her to share, but she didn't, just saying she has a path, etc. I think this is where Cirie got the idea of how to manipulate things moving forward from here.

I admit Cirie is getting a bit smarter with her behind the scenes stuff now and it just might work for her. She told Blue to tell Felicia she will 100% go after Matt and Jag in the double, but tell Bowie she is NOT going after Matt and Jag. That will get both of those votes for her according to Cirie. So Blue is really laying it on thick to Felicia that she won't allow Matt and Jag to get to the end of this game and it starts at the double eviction.

Next Cirie moved to Matt and this is the key to this plan working for her because Matt has a HUGE blind spot when it comes to Cirie. Jag has been trying to get him to see that she is working against them behind the scenes, but Matt keeps telling Jag that Cirie will NEVER put the 2 of them up. He said she will influence others to do it, but Matt isn't really buying it. Cirie is now telling Matt that she was talking to Bowie and Bowie mentioned the idea that Cory might have told America to lose the HOH and the veto on purpose to look like she was weak and then go into the double eviction and BOOM take one of them out.

Now hopefully Matt will tell Jag ALL of this, especially the part where Cirie said it was Bowie who asked that question because he will see through that right away. Cirie is also telling Matt that it is good that everyone sees Jag as a bigger threat than him because Jag will go first and then they will all protect Matt. Matt agreed and I know him and Jag have talked about it that Jag would be evicted first, but that isn't something he is thinking about. Matt is a very different player than most with different ideas of how he could win this game and none of them entail him being involved in taking out Jag which will be the reason he doesn't win if they make there, but I really think the loyalty aspect means more to him.

In the middle of this talk, Matt told Cirie that there is only 1 vote at the final 4 and she acted like she didn't know that. He told her if he won at 4, he would put up Jag and Felicia and Cirie would be the one to choose who would stay to go to the final 3. This is why Felicia now wants to kind of protect the boys to a certain extent because she is 100% convinced SHE would win the part 3 of the final HOH. What she seems to forget is that she has to WIN her way to the final part and I don't see her being able to do the physical aspects of part 1 or part 2, unless of course it is her, Cirie and Matt there, then she has a shot.

In any event, I think Cirie has been all over the place and working Matt was probably the way to go from the beginning, but now she has so many seeds planted all over the house that she will either flip things around or it will all come out what she's doing and she could very well be the one to leave in the double eviction. It will be fun to watch.

Cirie thinks she is this greatmastermind and can win the game buy laying low and using manipulation. That same strategy did not win her single season of Survivor is 4 tries, what makes her think it will work here?

As long as MAtt or Jag keep winning these comps, I think they'd be foolish not to take Cirie and Felicia to final 2, the aren't going to win anything coming down the road, where some of the others may be able to. It's the path of least resistance and there's no way either one of them wins part 1 or part 2 of final HoH as those are both physical comps. But watch Production change that up this year to make it easier for Cirie and Felicia to compete.

According to Cirie, either her or Felicia would win against "those boys" at the end because they talk better than the boys do. She said they can sell it much better than the boys can. What she seems to forget is you have to actually have some accomplishments to talk about. Felicia has a few (surviving the block, taking out Hisam, always on the right side of the vote), but Cirie really has nothing. What is she going to say? She spent almost the entire game telling everyone that she doesn't say names or targets, she just goes with the flow of the house, so now all the sudden she is going to say she was running things? Really?

And it turns out Matt is seeing through some of her shit on his own because he went to Jag and said Cirie told him America is the only one who would take the shot at us, that Felicia is 100% down with not doing anything to them in the DE because she wants their protection going forward, and Cirie won't take the shot herself but wants others to do it for her. So he basically saw through the whole thing, except for the part where she told him Bowie was the one wondering if America got strategy from Cory to lose both comps to look week and then strike in the double.

Oh and funny you should say that they might change up the final HOH if Cirie and Felicia are a part of it, because Cirie told Matt during their talk that she thinks she has a great shot at part 1 of the HOH because it will be less physical. I thought okay, she is REALLY confused or maybe a seed was planted by someone???

I would actually like to see a final 4 of Matt, Jag, Bowie and America. Bowie was like a piece of furniture for the first part of the game, but she was being loyal to Cirie and Felicia and the various groups they dragged her into. Then she got close to Red and when they screwed her over there, she looked for a different path in the game. She still kind of has a fondness for Cirie and was feeling loyal to that as far as their group of 4, but when Cirie sold them out to Blue, Bowie seemed quite pissed about it.

I like the dynamic between America and Blue when they are just talking about anything, and they work well together because America prepped Bowie for that mental comp really well too. I really would like to see that group mainly so Blue can watch each week waiting for America to come and she doesn't and I think they would have a fighting chance against Matt and Jag. I still want Matt and Jag in the final 2 chairs, but I would like to see them sweat a little and have to work a bit to get there.

So now Cirie is saying Jag is pushing for Blue to go and Felicia asked what they should do. Cirie said she wants to force a tie vote and make Jag kick Blue out of the house himself. This is yet another STUPID, STUPID strategy. She is probably thinking of the jury vote, but she doesn't seem to realize that Blue actually respects real gameplay otherwise she would have been done with Jag last week or this week for that matter. I could see him standing up and saying right to her face on eviction night, that he is sorry but she is a better competitor so he has to evict her instead. Now they go into the DE and everyone knows that Cirie and Felicia tried to screw all the rest of them. I guess that makes the noms pretty easy in the DE. That means that either Cirie or Felicia have to win veto or one of them are going out the door. I guess if America wins she COULD take out Jag, but that is almost suicide in that scenario.

Cirie keeps digging her hole a little bit deeper. This morning she started by talking with Matt and I thought she was being a bit smarter with her strategy, but then she pushes it a bit too far once again. She told Blue to tell Felicia her target was Jag/Matt and Bowie her target was Felicia. Well, Felicia and Bowie compared notes and figured out that Blue was telling 2 different stories and trying to play them both. I don't know if Felicia ever said anything about this to Cirie or not, but not long after that Felicia said under her breath while alone that Cirie isn't going to get to that final 3. Seems like her bitterness over the Izzy week is bubbling back up a bit or she sees that Cirie is trying to crowd her out.

Fast forward to tonight when Cirie and Felicia always talk and Cirie is almost panicking that people aren't looking at taking out the boys in the DE. She gets so pissed that Felicia isn't getting as fired up about it as she is. Now she is ADAMANT about making the vote a tie so that all the blood is on Jag's hands. According to Cirie Jag is making them do ALL THE WORK to take Blue out, and she goes to jury pissed off at them not Jag. Felicia asked what they are going to say to America for voting against her and she stays. Cirie said she would pull America aside before the eviction and tell her that Jag is trying to make them do all the dirty work for the eviction, so her and Felicia are going to make him do it himself and she seems to think America will be just fine with that and still go after Jag.

Cirie is not aware that Jag plans to tell Blue himself that she is going home on Wednesday, he doesn't want to blindside her, so there goes Cirie's little plan to tell America and blow up Jag more or whatever she thinks she can accomplish. But, I also could see Felicia going to Jag and/or Matt tomorrow and telling them that Cirie is trying to set this up to screw Jag over with her own blindside on eviction night. I actually hope that Felicia does rat her out and then MAYBE Matt will finally figure out that Cirie is working against them and stop trying to protect her all the damn time.

I'm not surprised at all that Felicia is seeing Cirie is still full of shit. She's been cautious with her since the Izzy vote. Basically a fool me once mentality.

The problem with Matt is that he is still hanging on to the fact that Reilly told him to trust Cirie. REilly has been gone since day 16 and Matt refuses to let it go:

That is EXACTLY the problem, he took what Reilly said about who to trust to heart and just can't seem to let go of it unfortunately. But some of the conversations in the last couple of days are moving him away from Cirie a bit, but not sure what he would do if push came to shove. He told Bowie last night while alone and then later with Jag that he knows that Cirie is working hard on him to try to make him evict America instead of Blue and lying to him about things in order to change his mind, but he's not doing it regardless of what they say. Then Bowie talked about the votes and said she is waiting for Cirie to say she wants to do a sympathy vote so she can vote for Blue for her jury vote. Matt said that would really piss him off because there are only 4 votes and that can get screwed up if people start doing stuff like that. Bowie said if Cirie does it, then that shows they need to take her out before Felicia because they obviously can't trust her vote and that is what they need right now.

This Reilly conversation you posted here was started by Blue with her ridiculous pitch to Matt. In was kind of in jest I think, but she also knows that Reilly is a subject that really grabs Matt's attention, so I think it was also a bit real. She started talking about all of them together at the beginning and something about keeping the team together that Reilly made and then she said "what would Reilly do" in the middle of it about keeping her.

Anytime anyone brings her up, he gets very vocal and very protective. He definitely fell HARD for this girl, part of it being she recognized things about him being deaf, like making sure he was sitting in a place to see all the people in a room, making sure he got the jest of the conversations and stuff, but the rest was just hard core crushing on her. In her exit interviews she did say he was one of the sweetest guys she has ever met and she would be very open to seeing him outside the house, but that is not exactly the same kind of endorsement he has for her. I hope they at least become very good friends.

The stuff about Cory's stuff and Reilly's stuff has become really weird. America has things in her room like a bottle of Dr. Pepper and a couple of other things that America says were the last things he touched, like an obsession, but she kind of makes fun of her self a bit too. I think Matt sees it as very, very real and since America threw away something or moved something of Reilly's that has stuck with him. The "revenge" he talks about is not taking them out of the game, it is throwing out these "tributes" which I hope he doesn't do because that is very small and petty, which is not in his character and will make him look bad.

Matt's biggest problem is that he is not a leader. He's a follower and always will be in this game. When he won the special power, he didn't know what to do so he told Cirie he had it, and she instructed him what to do with it. When he won his veto, he did what Cory instructed him to do.

I didn't realize this before, but him and Bowie are more similar than you would

I think, the difference is that Matt is the more social one. Like Bowie, I don't think Matt likes making decisions and is perfectly fine sitting on the sidelines.

Here's something to think about, if the vote were to take place today for who should be able to play in the superpower comp, does Matt still get voted as a player? I'm not certain he does because of his follow along mentatlity, at the time of that vote the impression both Matt and Cirie gave out was not what it is now.

ctown28 wrote:

Matt's biggest problem is that he is not a leader.  He's a follower and always will be in this game.  When he won the special power, he didn't know what to do so he told Cirie he had it, and she instructed him what to do with it.  When he won his veto, he did what Cory instructed him to do.

I didn't realize this before, but him and Bowie are more similar than you would

I think, the difference is that Matt is the more social one.  Like Bowie, I don't think Matt likes making decisions and is perfectly fine sitting on the sidelines.

Here's something to think about, if the vote were to take place today for who should be able to play in the superpower comp, does Matt still get voted as a player?  I'm not certain he does because of his follow along mentatlity, at the time of that vote the impression both Matt and Cirie gave out was not what it is now.

I have to agree with you for the most part. He will put his foot down or get pissed of and refuse to work with someone if he feels they are playing what he would consider a dirty game or something. This is why he could never get past what Cam did the first week. He could tolerate him for a couple of weeks, but at that point he couldn't WAIT for him to be taken out. He almost wrote off Jag when he thought Jag was shitting on him during Cam's HOH and that deal he made because he didn't tell Matt about it. They got it smoothed over later, but Matt really thought that Jag had thrown him under the bus and only cared about himself in some way.

Something like this is what HAS to happen in order for Matt to finally write Cirie off. I thought some of the events of the last day or so was making him move in that direction when he told Jag he knew that Cirie and Felicia were both lying to him about America and Blue. Then when this shit came up about the vote and Cirie telling Felicia (which she told Jag) that Matt wanted to take Jag out at the "right time" and that it was all about the timing.

He went off on his own and talked to Cirie, and of course she talked fast and covered her ass. He went back to Jag and Jag told him now it makes it look like HE doesn't believe Cirie and Matt doesn't believe Felicia. Matt wanted to "fix it" and went to talk to Cirie AGAIN. She bullshitted again and agreed to go to the HOH room and talk to Jag and Matt. She covered okay, but didn't seem to have answers to all of Jag's questions, but Matt ate it up. I only hope that Jag talks to Matt more to poke holes in this stupid story that Cirie gave about the split vote being Felicia's idea not hers; that Felicia told America about the split vote so America would trust the mommas more but Felicia will supposedly tell Jag that America overheard it; Cirie doesn't want Blue told ahead of time and all this stuff.

Matt just made all of this worse because he can NEVER believe anything bad about Cirie. I guess it is going to take him or Jag being evicted at the hands of Cirie for him to finally wake up and smell the coffee unless Jag can get through to him. Jag did tell him that he needs to be careful because the 2 of them have to know whatever one does, they both pay the price.

Oh and answer to your question, no I don't think Matt would be chosen for a power by America at this point. His popularity has been dropping like a rock, probably because he isn't doing anything. Of course Jag's is dropping like a rock as well, probably because he is doing too much. Cory and America are moving up which might be the heart strings of the showmance being broken up for now, but I guess we will see.

So after Matt screwed up things by telling Cirie way too much information, and Jag explained that to him more, he went back to her and told her NOT to say anything to Felicia about what they talked about. He said he just talked to Jag and Cirie said she would go talk to Jag, but Matt said he was going to go with her.

They were going back and forth with her explaining it was all Felicia about everything and Jag was subtly poking holes in her story by asking the right questions here and there. One example is that Cirie said that Felicia told America they were going to do a split vote to make Jag get the blood on his hands and he asked why Felicia would think that would help her and Cirie look better to America, voting against her and taking the chance she could go instead? Cirie said she didn't know, but now Felicia will say that America overheard them and they had to try to explain it to her. None of that even makes sense to me, but whatever.

Anyway they went back and forth a bit and Cirie kind of got irritated and Jag asked what about the vote. She said it will be unanimous, just make it easy. He said he would then tell Blue, but all of the sudden Cirie didn't want him to tell her, just let her believe she is staying and maybe tell her right before the eviction or something. Jag wasn't really on board with that but dropped it.

After she left Jag and Matt talked and Matt said he thought Felicia and Cirie were both lying and throwing each other under the bus. He was still a bit in denial because he kept saying that Cirie would not put them up and he was sure of that. Then Jag FINALLY got smart and got very real with Matt.

He went back to the first week and talked about the Reilly vote and things they have learned about that since then. He pointed out the holes in the story that Cirie has given them about that making her look like the hero when she actually was working AGAINST keeping Reilly. He asked Matt questions about it and pointed out that Reilly didn't have all the information when she left, it was Cirie going to her last minute saying she had been fighting for it but just couldn't do it. But apparently Cirie made sure that Reilly didn't go to Cory and someone else (can't remember for sure) and talk to them before she told Matt and Jag to just let it go and vote her out. In reality it was Cirie and Izzy working that vote against Reilly but Reilly didn't know that and that is why she told them to trust and protect Cirie.

He has an obsession with Reilly obviously and taking it back to that time in the game made it real for him and I think he finally got it through his thick head, even though I don't see him ever just targeting her straight up. At least maybe it won't be such blind faith in her or at least I hope so.

All Felicia and Cirie did with this spat of there is push themselves right out of Final 4 with Matt and Jag. Watching them turn on each other that easily plays right into there hands. Of course, if I were them, I'd still want to take them to final 4 and let them continue to bicker and drive each other crazy because neither of them are winning anything, assuming Felicia doesn't pull out the questions tomorrow night, but that's a different discussion

Unless Felicia wins the HoH for the double, she's likely going to be gone. She's become public enemy #1. I can't see her winning a physical type veto comp so she won't be able to save herself. This is where America needs to be careful. If she pulls off the HoH and puts up Matt/Jag, there's a good chance one of them wins veto and comes down. Anyone she would put up besides Cirie would likely go home and then she'd be fucked for going back on her word to not go after them. It could get very interesting, if it's Jag and Cirie on the block, Felica votes out Cirie, Matt would turn on Jag and that makes Bowie the swing vote. If it's Matt vs Cirie, I think Cirie goes as Jag sees the opportunity to pull Matt in fully and get the distraction named Cirie out. Felicia will vote Cirie out no matter who she's against.

ctown28 wrote:

All Felicia and Cirie did with this spat of there is push themselves right out of Final 4 with Matt and Jag.  Watching them turn on each other that easily plays right into there hands.  Of course, if I were them, I'd still want to take them to final 4 and let them continue to bicker and drive each other crazy because neither of them are winning anything, assuming Felicia doesn't pull out the questions tomorrow night, but that's a different discussion

Yep, because both take it too far of course. I have been reading the updates and listening a bit here and there, and it is hilarious to watch Cirie make all the rounds to everyone in the house saying that Felicia is spiraling and she is done with it, but she almost sounds panicked herself. She doesn't seem to stop and think about her normal behavior is to make appearances here and there, but most of the time goes back to her room and sits there waiting for people to come and see her. Now today she is going from room to room, making sure to have face time with everyone and barely saying anything to Felicia. It has a desperate feel to it.

She did talk to Blue and told her she was getting a "bad feeling" but it is nothing specific, just the way people are acting and stuff. I think Blue knows it is coming because she was almost afraid to have conversations/campaigns yesterday even with the mommas together, they ended up studying the HN room details instead, it was weird. She is a bit panicked now, but Cirie just told her not to say she said anything of course. Oh, and Cirie told Blue that all Jag and Felicia think about is jury votes (seriously?).

Cirie doesn't know that after her talk with Jag, him and Matt decided on their own that Jag is in fact going to tell Blue so Cirie doesn't get a chance to make it worse than it is. Jag plans to tell her that she is a bigger competitor, she told some people she was coming after him and others she wasn't, and he respects her game over America's. This will be another thing that will piss Cirie off.

So Matt is back on Stupid Street again. Every chance he got yesterday he would tell Bowie, Jag and even America from time to time that Felicia is spiraling and going crazy and causing all this trouble, probably to remove some of the heat from Cirie. Now there is some stupid plan supposedly (I didn't hear the original conversation to know who came up with what, only some fuzzy details between Matt and Jag last night), Felicia and Cirie are both planning to throw the HOH to either Matt or Bowie (Bowie being the preferred choice apparently). This is supposedly EVIDENCE that Cirie and Felicia neither one wants to put the guys up and are ready to rock with them to the end.

They think this is brilliant because it puts Matt and Jag competing in the next HOH that they are SURE will be something physical. But the thing that neither of them are thinking about is winning the HOH at 5 means you aren't playing for it in the final 4 and that is for absolute safety with no blood on your hands unless you win veto. I think they are under the impression that EVERYONE plays in the final 4 HOH regardless of who wins the final 5 HOH. I believe it was Felicia who told Matt or Jag that EVERYONE plays in the final 4 HOH and then the guys were talking about that as well. Felicia knows the game and has either gotten confused or using it as game strategy and since production is so big about enforcing rules, they should be calling Felicia in to set that record straight and make her do it as well because you are not supposed to be able to "use production as game strategy."

During the talks with the guys, Jag told Matt over and over and over that he needs to play hard for the HOH UNLESS OR UNTIL America is out of the comp or far enough behind she can't win. This is true even if Bowie is in there with America. I worry that Matt once again is shying away from being HOH, thinking he will pull his weight with the veto, but he needs to stop that shit and step up.