Final HoH and Veto

May as well combine them both into one thread.  Noms have already been made and it is Felicia and Matt.  veto will be played today to determine who will cast the lone vote to evict

Jag won veto. Watch him get cocky and cut Matt thinking he can beat both the ladies!

He has been on this kick all season that he is a loyal player until others aren't loyal to him in some way (real or manufactured). I don't see him taking out Matt at this point, I think he would lose some of the votes he has because of that premise. Doing it at the final 3 is different, but not by a lot.

I am wondering if the gender thing will come into play or do the women in the jury just hate Bowie too much to do that? There was a time they ALL wanted a woman to win. Not that I think it should EVER be a criteria, I thought it might come up at some point.

Sounds like the veto was something to do with house events and Jag did it really fast. I wonder now if Bowie will rethink her position on who SHE might take if she wins the final?

I know for sure Felicia will never give Bowie a vote. Felicia gets annoyed when Bowie breathes. Cirie may be more level headed and if she's bitter enough America could vote for her as well. Blue will never vote for a female, she's too catty for that

The more I think about it, the more I believe that Blue will vote as Cirie tells her to vote because she really thinks she has a future with Jared. Maybe she does, but considering Cirie asked Jared in the house when he was worried his letter would be from his girlfriend if he really would want a letter from her "right now" it pretty much tells you how Jared works in relationships. Of course chances are his previous girlfriend kicked him to the curb when he got out, but I guess we will see. Blue can probably get a lot of connections for him with this music stuff and other things where he needs social media and according to her she is quite successful in what she does. The way she talks about money and traveling and stuff, it doesn't sound like money is a problem to her so it could be true.

Other votes are really up in the air, but I think Matt probably has a slight edge, but I think he has to win the final and make the choice in order to win. I know people might think it would be best for Matt to take Bowie, but I still don't see him doing that. He started with Jag and wants to end with Jag, and I think that makes his case of loyalty that he has talked about all season and not turning on people until they turned on him.

Well, Felicia made her pitch to Jag and I have to give her credit once again for not giving up and trying anything she can to try to stay. Her biggest problem is that she is talking about honesty and integrity and saying she always tells the truth, but every time she makes a pitch to people or basically talks game to anyone, she is lying about something.

She told Jag that Matt wants to get rid of him again. Jag asked when this was said and she told him it was yesterday. They bounced things like that back and forth between them and Jag saying how can he be sure what she says is true, and she said because she doesn't make things up just tells people what is going on. He then told her he did ask Matt about what Felicia told Jag last week that Matt told Cirie he was taking Jag out, then all of the sudden she said she didn't get ALL the information from Matt, only Bowie's name out of his mouth and the rest came from Cirie. Interestingly though Jag didn't share any details with Matt or Bowie (at least not that were on the updates that is).

Now what Jag SHOULD have done was brought up some of the more egregious things she has said, most recently that Jag was supposedly making fun of Matt behind his back and make her explain that kind of thing. If she denies it, then tell her it is things like this that make it hard to want to move forward with her because that is talking about a person's integrity and has nothing to do with game. This gives him a "reason" to send her out and she will know it wasn't just for the hell of it. Just like his GB message to Cirie should have been simply that they talked about it and felt she was the bigger threat, but it was a hard decision or something like that.

Bowie keeps saying she is so glad the comp is over for day numbers for house events and they don't have to study them anymore. I haven't seen in the updates anyone agreeing with her but judging from the lack of knowledge these people have had about how the end of the game works, I am not sure any of them remember that is the final part of the HOH. Of course they could go back to what used to be the classic of filling in the blank of the jury member with questions/statements presented to them in the jury house rather than something they actually said in the house.

This will really be a shock to all of them.

At this point I don't have much interest other than seeing it through to the end. I likely won't even watch tomorrow episode until Monday morning with that ridiculous late start time. Tuesdays show is the bullshit recap and then a 2 hour finale on Thursday that could easily be cut to 1 hour.

One thing that will be interesting to see is if Julie confirms or denies the rumors of a winter season and if it will be celebrities or former winners

Well Ctown as much as it pains me to say it, you were right and I was wrong about Jag. I really thought he would be as committed to Matt as Matt seems to be to him, but last night he entertained the thought of eve cutting Matt in tomorrow's eviction. He talked to Bowie about it, but she pushed back telling him that he would regret it forever if he did that to Matt, especially since it is based off information that Felicia gave him about Matt thinking of cutting him. He told her he wondered why Matt would even "entertain" the idea when he ever did that with Matt the final 3. Well he started talking to Bowie about taking Matt out a few weeks ago and trying now to be self righteous about it.

And the most sickening thing about it to me is that he keeps saying he kept Matt safe the entire game by winning all those comps. The only reason Matt was targeted at all was because people wanted Jag out and needed to keep Matt from saving him. Matt's social game was much better than Jag's, not to mention Matt wouldn't even be in the game had it not been for Matt winning the path to power comp and using it. Not to mention winning HOH at the 5 to keep his ass safe too.

I get it is a game that you want to win and it might be smart to eliminate Matt at this point, but the whole premise of Jag's game has been his loyalty. Sure he has eliminated people he was working with, but most of the time he did that just as they were going to be moving on him. I think he would have lost even to Bowie had he cut Matt at this point and it may be a factor if he does it in the final as well, but either way he would be losing so I guess it doesn't matter, does it.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that he's waffling already. And there's still a full day and half to go before the eviction. Felicia will certainly be in his ear a lot more and don't be surprised if he begins to entertain the idea of going to final 2 with her instead of Matt or Bowie since Bowie is now starting to win things. His logic will be that he will just win them there and not realize that part 3 of final HoH is questions.

Oh how funny would it be if Jag cuts Matt tomorrow, thereby pissing off Bowie to where she feels she can't trust him and then Bowie wins part 3 of final HoH and takes Felicia instead of Jag. A Felicia Bowie final 2 is exactly what this trainwreck of a season deserves

And lo and behold, all of the sudden Bowie has done a 180 about Jag's decision. After telling him last night Jag would regret it forever if he were to cut Matt before the final 3, today she told him she is okay with whatever he decides. She spent a bunch of time with Felicia today, but she was the one actually doing the enlightening of Felicia that it was the people here now that were saving her ass most of the season, not Cirie and the others. She did try to explain the Red vote going back and forth, but that wasn't something that would have flipped Bowie in any way.

I have a feeling that the DR wants to either have the final 2 of Matt/Jag for the reasons you pointed out a few weeks ago Ctown, the first disabled person sitting next to the first Sikh or they want the first black older woman to get to the final, or at least the final 3. I think this is why Jag has been giving so much weight to what Felicia has been saying and the sudden flip for Bowie.

Like I said before, I know it is a game and you have to try to win it for yourselves, but sometimes taking the easy route doesn't get you a lot of respect with votes and with the piss poor jury management Jag has had, he needs all the help he can get to gain any respect. If he shits on what has supposedly been his entire premise of the game, I think he loses votes. It is also very different to cut Matt at this point to keep Felicia who has tried to get Jag out of the game for weeks on end and cutting him at the final because he can't beat them in the vote. He has a promise of taking him to the final 2 from both Bowie and Matt and he is an excellent competitor, THAT should be enough to go into the final 3 with this team. Anything else is just being a coward.

I just think it would be hysterical to watch him outplay himself and end up taking third instead of a sure final 2. I'll agree to a point about loyalty but when it comes to the final 2 you have to play the odds. Just like Cody taking Derrick was a huge mistake. Obviously that's not the situation here, but Jag cutting Matt now is a huge misplay. Matt and Bowie with both take him to final 2, we get to end game and Bowie sees the way Jag turned on Matt, it will get her thinking about his loyalty to her

Jag is trying really hard to get Bowie to make the decision with him or at least see his side of things, but the most she has done is tell him it is his decision and she is fine with whatever he wants to do. She did once again say that she would never do it because she would feel to bad to turn on their team at this point, but he kept talking. She finally told him to talk to Matt about what Felicia has said, but he said Matt will just deny and Felicia will say she doesn't lie. Then she said bring them all 3 together in a room and talk it out, but he didn't seem to interested in that.

I agree with you that he is just being a coward worried that Matt might beat him. Saying things like Matt was never tested because he won the vetoes during Matt's HOH so he COULDN'T take the shot. Gimme a break. I wish he would bring it up to Matt or better yet do a group thing with the 3 of them. That is when Matt can say that he didn't believe Felicia when she said Matt was making fun of him behind his back because he couldn't heart it. That is one that proves Felicia DOES in fact lie for sure using himself as proof.

I agree at the final 3 you have to make your best decision based on votes, but cutting him now is just lousy and could very easily lose the game for him too.

Well Jag has made his decision, he is going to cut Matt tonight. He supposedly is going to tell Matt so he is not blindsided, but I wonder if he actually has the balls to do that. He told Bowie he was going to tell Matt that Matt has been looking out for himself for weeks and Jag has been looking out for Matt and NOT himself, so now it is time for Jag to look out for himself. He told Felicia that he believes Felicia because of her faith and knows her faith makes her tell the truth. I hope when he talks to Matt, he asks him why he believes Felicia over him and he mentions this faith and bible thing. Then Matt needs to come back with Felicia also told Matt that Bowie and Jag were making fun of HIM so apparently that must be true as well, right?

Felicia made a promise to Jag that she would take him if she had the choice at the end and will never waiver from that commitment even if she would lose and he believed that too. She said she wants people she sees as loyal and that she can trust next to her. I guess she forgot about the final 4 JAG made with her and Cirie and then went back on or how Jag is shitting on Matt right now.

I think Felicia is right about one thing, it is a $750k decision and I think this just lost the game for Jag. Hopefully Matt leaving tonight will give him a bit more of a chance to win AFP, but I don't think that will happen either because his popularity is down on some sites drastically. Now I wonder if Bowie will flip on him. It would serve him right.

I don't see this as a smart game move, I see it as a coward's move. All Jag's talk about saving Matt the entire game was not something he was saying along the way. And HE was the one to talk to Bowie about the final 2 even though he has had one with Matt for most of the game. Sure Matt agreed with other people when they said he would have to take out Jag eventually, but what was he supposed to do? It is like when someone asks you to join and alliance, saying no can be a problem. His actions show exactly what his intensions were and Matt didn't even consider putting up Bowie or Jag when he won HOH. Jag's answer to that is he won the veto so Matt couldn't do anything. Well he could have put up Jag and Bowie to make sure one of them would go and put Jag on the bottom of the ladder fighting for his life and who is to say that Bowie wouldn't have pulled off that veto if she had been on the block?

After a very long DR session (Jag said he might have to go to the upstairs DR to make himself feel better), Jag has decided to keep Matt. The wording he has used since that session when talking to Matt were things like "Felicia could never say anything to make me............" Matt then went to take down his Reilly shrine (pictures, letter, etc.) saying he wanted them with him, Jag told him to leave it up because he was good. I don't think Jag would have done that if he was intended a blindside.

But interestingly enough during the time Jag was in the DR and Matt was in the shower Bowie had another chat with Felicia (she's had a couple since Jag started talking about cutting Matt) and Felicia told Bowie she played the "perfect game" which made Bowie laugh. But then Felicia told her it was an actual term in big brother for the "perfect game" never being put up on the block. Their conversation then went on about various things, but Bowie said Felicia never changed the way she was from day 1 to now, so that was something, always being yourself and sticking to your guns and she felt she had done that as well.

Now when Jag was pretty sure he was going to cut Matt, he talked with Felicia and said he believed her and her faith and all of that, but he also told her that the only thing bigger than saying someone has survived 8 times on the block is someone who has never been on the block like Bowie, and told her that was called a "perfect game." Of course this was his way to make sure she didn't consider taking Bowie if things went haywire in the final HOH, but what he has done is given Felicia a reason to vote for Bowie if she is sitting next to him. She will go to that roundtable and tell them "even Jag said the fact that Bowie was never on the block is considered the "perfect game" AND she has the most HOH wins this season too!

Now I wonder what will happen if Matt and Jag split the wins in 1 and 2 to play each other in the third part, leaving Bowie to hope someone takes her, will she tell Matt about all that Jag said and how hard the decision was for him? As late as this morning, he was going to cut Matt from the game and she knows that and could easily use that to plant a seed with Matt. And like it has always been in this season nobody seems to confront anyone else about things, so would Matt tell Jag about it and ruin the chances of Jag taking her to the final? Quite the tightrope and to be honest, I don't see her doing it for some reason, but I also didn't think Jag would even think of cutting Matt and we see where that almost went.

Here's the thing. Whether Jag keeps Matt or cuts him, the bell has been rung and it's not something that can be unrung. This gives advantage to Bowie. She would be foolish to not tell Matt about the whole hullabo should he stay. In fact, if I were her, I'd bring it up in front of Jag in a nonchalant way once they are in final 3. "Jag, I can't believe you even considered cutting Matt the other day" and hten sit back and watch him panic

ctown28 wrote:

Here's the thing.  Whether Jag keeps Matt or cuts him, the bell has been rung and it's not something that can be unrung.  This gives advantage to Bowie.  She would be foolish to not tell Matt about the whole hullabo should he stay.  In fact, if I were her, I'd bring it up in front of Jag in a nonchalant way once they are in final 3.  "Jag, I can't believe you even considered cutting Matt the other day" and hten sit back and watch him panic

The only thing is that this could keep him from taking her to the final 2 if Jag wins round 3. She needs to keep her mouth shut until the comps play out and not risk her own game. She seems to be the only one who can keep her damn mouth shut at this point.